Future Sovereignty

Continuing his guest-residency Gordon Guthrie reflects on the British crisis, and constitutional strategies.

Question 2: Under what circumstances would the SNP participate in a Labour-led constitutional process if it bought PR and reformed the Lords?

There are two approaches the Scottish Government could take:

I told you so – not our problem – indy – cheerio.

The second recognises that we govern for all the people: SNP voters or not, No or Yes, Leave or Remain.

A constitutional moment requires a governmental response – with the backing of our party and movement.

When First Past The Post goes off-piste things go insane fast, as the poll projections show – 500 Labour seats. Never happen! – but just look at our Westminster group.

It is a shared national priority to get the Tories out, whether your ‘nation’ is Scotland or Britain. We have to say vote for whoever is best placed to get the Tories out – in Scotland SNP, elsewhere mostly Labour.

We are a constitutional party and we want a constitutional UK. We live on this island and we want constitutional neighbours, as small-y unionists we want an England in the Union, the European Union, and OUR No voters need a constitutional order.

Labour will or may start a constitutional process. Its promises tend to get forgotten in the sweet drunken haze of an FTPT-boosted majority. A party constitutional in defeat but otherwise in victory.

If there is to be a constitutional process it must be on the basis that the union is a voluntary union of sovereign peoples. A constitution would need a popular vote and a majority in each of 4 members of the union.

But our political participation would depend on that. There is no chance of 50% + 1 all-UK majority Brexit-style vote on a UK constitution – because of Northern Ireland.

No constitution can be imposed on Scotland. Laws that purport to be constitutional but which have been adopted by a normal Westminster process (ie leading party in FPTP elections does what the hell it likes) are just another law – a tweak to the Lords, a sop to the regions, meh.

Any substantial change to the architecture of the Union requires changes to the Scotland Act – any redistribution of power across England. And that needs consent: of Holyrood if it is minor, of the electorate if it is major.

We are pushing at an open door here: Labour is not a party of coercion, of Faragite Francoists, but if they can get away with a quick fix, they will.

Super-majorities are part of Scottish political life – the Scotland Act protects the electoral system with them. In principle we have no objection to them – but they also can’t be imposed. A 50% + 1 approved constitution can’t then bind independence with 75% + 1.

We should shoot the Labour fox and offer, as a government not a party, (almost) nothing off-the-table talks. The almost here being it must lead to a voluntary union of sovereign peoples.

But all the while, we as the party would reserve our right to exercise that sovereignty in a free vote to leave the Union, as the constitutional norm in Northern Ireland.

Comments (14)

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  1. Hugh McShane says:

    Sorry-cobblers- tone reads cowed-unctuous/creepy.

  2. Iain Lennox says:

    “And that needs consent: of Holyrood if it is minor, of the electorate if it is major.”

    Unfortunately, Gordon, you seem to be wearing rose-tinted, but defective spectacles if you believe the above.

    The way the Tories tell it, (and Labour will be no different), they don’t need the consent of Holyrood for ANYTHING !

    If anything has been made abundantly clear in recent years, it’s that !

  3. AShall says:

    A good grown-up piece which means you will be abused by the usual ultra-nats.

    1. Not necessarily so. We’re trying to have a grown-up conversation about options, problems and routes forward.

  4. JP58 says:

    An interesting piece by Gordon but there are two big issues that need to be addressed:-
    1)Brexit which Labour appear to have accepted now.
    There would need to be recognition of fact Scotland voted 2:1 to stay in. If NI can have separate arrangements based on a narrower majority to Remain there must be recognition of this. 2)There also needs recognition of right of Holyrood being able to legislate for an independence referendum during lifetime of a parliament that votes for one.
    Without these two issues being addressed the remainder of modernisation, desirable as it would be for UK, would be tinkering as far as Scotland’s needs are concerned.

  5. Cameron Fraser says:

    The route to independence is clear, convince the majority of people living in Scotland that our country’s independence will benefit them in their daily lives.
    Crystal clear! Unfortunately snp /Scot Gov’s continued errors, incompetence and attempted cover-ups, will not convince those who are not already on board, furthermore, those who have campaigned long and hard for our country’s independence have the seed of doubt planted that those who seek to lead an independent Scotland, are simply not up to the job.
    Remove the Tories first, build trust with a Scottish Government that all people who live and work here can have confidence in, when we have achieved that, then we can put the independence question to the electorate and be assured of the positive outcome.

    1. JP58 says:

      This is a typical Labour Party response and is a back to front reply, patronising and explains why Labour support has tumbled in Scotland.
      There are several issues here:
      1. Should there be an independence referendum- this can only be answered by Scottish electorate voting in Holyrood election which used PR. They have returned a majority of MSP’s in favour of an independence referendum. I appreciate you personally may not want another referendum but we live in a parliamentary democracy so there is no other way to decide whether or no to hold a referendum.
      2. Whether Scotland should be independent is a different issue and all bets are off at the moment. This is up for voters in Scotland to decide in a referendum.
      3.SNP may not be particularly competent in your opinion but they are still far better than any alternative parties and last year’s Holyrood election showed that many voters agree with this statement.
      4.I agree we need to get rid of Tories but even if we do for how long. Keir Starmer has adopted a vigorous anti SNP attitude (bordering on anti Scottish attitude) to pander to red wall Brexit voters in England. Scotland might get a temporary reprieve from a party it hasn’t voted for in 60 years but it is only a matter of time before English electorate return to vote Tory – history shows it is the default setting sour of the border.
      I used to be a Labour supporter but have left them over their head in the sand attitude to Scotland and there are thousands like me. The attitude you have expressed in your post only continues to push me further away from voting Labour.

      1. Cameron Fraser says:

        Well that’s entirely up to you JP58.
        I don’t think I’ll lose any sleep over your claim that my comment is
        “typical Labour Party response” which you’ve been so adept and judgemental in pointing out.
        It’s not.
        It’s an opinion based on many years of effort in trying to convince fellow voters living in Scotland on the merits of independence. Sadly, some of those, who I and many others, worked so hard to get elected seem to have settled in to business as usual, coupled with an ineffective, bluster filled response to the excesses of a rampant hard right Government.
        I’m of the opinion that they, the Tories are the greatest threat to Scotland’s people and our neighbours living in the other countries that make up these Islands.
        Each to their own

        1. JP58 says:

          I agree with your take on the Tories – we have just heard today about how austerity has killed people.
          You have however not addressed the fundamental issues of:my posts which are key to me and many others are I do not think were addressed in this interesting article:
          1.The right of the Scottish electorate to decide to hold an independence Referendum- ie is this a voluntary union or not.
          2.Brexit and recognition that it’s implementation in Scotland is fundamentally undemocratic- especially when you consider implementation in NI.
          3.The fact that we have had Tory governments imposed on Scotland against its electorate’s wishes in 30 out of 43 years I have been voting. The only Labour government had Tony Blair to make it acceptable to middle England. I have little doubt that any incoming Labour government would not last long until Tories reorganise and became more acceptable to English electorate.

          Sleep well

  6. Hugh McShane says:

    Agree 100% with JP58’s considered responses- I can’t be bothered with using anti-Tory Unionist parties(whose raison d’etre is Westminster power) for some kind of benign largesse to be forthcoming. Scotland’s anti-Tory, and now 50% anti- Union. It’s a binary situation, as Renton would say…

  7. Wul says:

    Who is the “we” referred to in this article?

    If the author is a member or supporter of a political party it would be useful and up front to state that under his by-line.

    1. Niemand says:

      Judging by the first article in the series I assume it is an SNP insider of some sort.

  8. Neil says:

    We have to ask ourselves is this statement really true:
    “It is a shared national priority to get the Tories out, whether your ‘nation’ is Scotland or Britain. We have to say vote for whoever is best placed to get the Tories out –”
    What level of priority are we talking about here, minor, major or absolute?
    Surely the absolute priority is to understand that a massive majority of Scots need to feel that controlling your own destiny…which includes economics, politics, social policy, defence, etc. is absolutely a great thing to do.

  9. Hugh McShane says:

    I took 7 words- your 2 are better!

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