Britain’s Persecution Complex #EU2

imagesLithuanian Dovydas Kuliešas responds to the Brexit crisis.

If I had to describe, in a word, how I feel about Brexit, the word would be “furious.”

I’m originally from Lithuania, and, right now, it so happens I’m a student at the University of Glasgow. I’ll be starting my second year of uni in just a little over a week from now; though I’ve been in Scotland for just one year, I love the place, and honestly, I think there are few places as beautiful and as welcoming in equal measure on this earth. I have barely, if ever, experienced anything but kindness from the people at university or the people of Glasgow in general. I feel privileged to be here. Truly.
And yet, there’s Brexit.

Brexit infuriates me, in an unbelievable multitude of ways. To list all of them would take a letter longer than this. I find the colossal arrogance of the entire affair the most infuriating thing about it, right after the casual racism Eastern Europeans have been flogged with for this entire sordid referendum campaign from beginning to end. I find it infuriating that Britain, a country virtually mired in nothing but exceptions from EU rules and privileges that no other member state possesses or even would find it rational to desire, apparently finds it within itself to stand up and yell at the rest of us, “WE’RE BEING OPPRESSED BY YOUR UNELECTED BUREAUCRATS” – a pithy line that betrays a complete lack of knowledge about how the EU even works.

This persecution complex, apparently endorsed by a narrow majority of the population of England and Wales, is so vast, that underpaid EU nationals in British workplaces somehow become not victims of exploitation, but invaders coming here to take British jobs, fisheries policy, drawn up to ensure a sustainable future for our seas, becomes Dark Lord Juncker somehow repressing British fishermen, and the Human Rights Act becomes a restriction of the GREATEST PARLIAMENT OF ALL TIME, Westminster, whose knowledge of every issue is vast and sooooo comprehensive and there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY any European knows anything better than the grand parliamentary tradition of Westminster – a set of political archaisms probably at home in the 16th century than the 21st.

Yet more infuriating is talk, Ukipper and Tory and Lexiter, of Britain’s “independence” from Europe. You have to be unbelievably privileged, unbelievably lucky to not know what the word “independence” means on that profound a level. My country, Lithuania, was occupied and illegally, after a rigged referendum, annexed, for fifty years by the Soviet Union, from 1940 to 1990. Not long before that, between 1795 and 1918, we had been under the rule of the Russian Empire for over 120 years. These periods of time have left long-lasting traumas on our society, stunted and often downright paralysed our political, economic and cultural development. A British Eurosceptic has not seen their family deported to freezing Siberia at the whim of a totalitarian dictator from another land, and they have not seen the declarations of independence peoples like mine have made to save themselves from that sort of thing. They do not have the right to use that word, as to become independent, you have to have been subjected and oppressed, and Britain is not oppressed. It, however, historically has oppressed other nations all over Africa and Asia and Oceania, which makes Brexiter claims to this word all the more disgusting.

I did not think this foolishness was as vast as it seemingly is. Britain always had its Farages and proto-Farages but frankly, I believed right until the referendum that no, even in England, this idiocy had not reached critical mass. I was wrong. And as a counterpoint to my anger, I’m also unbelievably afraid; not for myself, to be fair, I can always decide to go back home after my studies, as much as I’d prefer to stay. I’m afraid for the countless other EU nationals in this country. I’m afraid for members of my own family who live in the UK, for the increasing number of victims of racist violence, for Poles, and Lithuanians, and Romanians, and Bulgarians; all of those peoples denigrated by right-wingers as ‘scroungers’ and by Lexiters as ‘cheap labour’. We’re people, we live here, we work here and we have just as much a right to do so as anyone who was lucky to be born on British soil.

As a counterpoint to my feelings of fear and anger, I hope. I feel unbelievably grateful to Nicola Sturgeon, as First Minister of Scotland, for having stood up for those of Scotland’s residents who happen to also be EU nationals. And, as many of Scotland’s residents, wherever they’re from, I hope: I hope not for the madness and xenophobia of Brexit Britain, but for Scotland, independent in Europe.

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  1. Donnie McColl says:

    Well said Dovydas!

    Smart men can often incite others to do things they would not normally do, but make them think it is to their benefit to act in a certain way, e.g Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage getting people to scape goat Johnnie Foreigner and to vote brexit. There are other examples in history exist, I’ll not labour the point.

    Smarter women, such as Nicola Sturgeon present a case upon which to act, that case includes the exact opposite of scape goating Johnnie Foreigner, it asks you to embrace other peoples as you would wish to be embraced yourself, be that in times of desperate need or every day living.

    This leads you to the conclusion that the smart men like Johnson and Farage aren’t smart men, they narrow minded and manipulative liars who don’t care whom they hurt to get what they want.

    I’ll not labour this point either, but you can see the decency and humanitarianism Scotland’s First Minster has over senior uk politicians including the uk prime minster.

    I do hope that people like you settle in Scotland, find careers, pay taxes, raise kids and make the most of what Scotland has to offer, this should be a reciprocal process.

    In the 2014 referendum in Scotland it was difficult for me to see why people like yourself settling in Scotland would vote for Scotland to stay in the uk, I think it pretty obvious going forward who is the friend of internationalism!

    Best wishes for the future!

  2. bringiton says:

    Well said and let’s hope England’s xenophobic isolationism doesn’t prevail here in Scotland.

    1. Donnie McColl says:

      It won’t!

      1. Thrawn says:

        It did with over 1 million people…(none of whom i agree with btw)…so to claim Scotland is somehow immune from xenophobic isolationism is a fantasy

        1. I don’t think anyone’s claiming that- are they?

          1. c rober says:

            Many of that 1m werent voting on xenophobia , but rather the propagandist nurtured perception that the EU is the reason for the countries woes.

            They weren’t told that HMG has prevented investment into social housing , schools , services – the real reason for the LOCAL impact of immigration. Or that in times of protracted financial crisis historically this is where such investment mattered , rather than austerity instead and imports lowering shopping costs being the finger in the dyke of low wages thus exporting wealth- barely making a dent into the deficit.

            Nor are they being told of the population demographic tsunami in an increasing aged population , that can only be subdued , but not prevented , through immigration , and is something that will affect the house price bubble once that demographic eventually shuffles off its mortal coil…. where over supply means prices heading downwards. Care too will be impacted , less working age people means less taxes , thus less care . With todays family and house layouts we cannot even adopt the Japanese or European 3g home via adaptions , as there just isnt enough footprint , even if we could afford to not work in order to do so.

            The Eu has its problems , sure , but hardly the ones that the media and the likes of Borage have claimed. Now that it has realized that there is an ever increasing plan , perhaps desire , for Exit from some of its members , its worried , and thats a good thing – well for its members as change comes from within.

            A wide brush model hasnt worked , I grant that. While one country cannot adjust the euro locally for exports , not that it has made any difference to the UK whom can , all this has done has shifted EU wealth to Germany – where it became easy as pie to buy up those parts it wanted on the cheap , as well as export on a guaranteed non fluctuation economy compared to the mark with tarrifs and taxes.

            Its still too weighted towards the German industrial , and soon banking powerhouse.

            Its still to open to French power – being a main route for most of the EU exports , but for the greater part has prevented the old days of blockades etc , mostly due to stealth road taxes aka tolls – as its a main export route for all of the EU to traverse – so much for free trade eh.

            Spain too failed as a builder , went to illegal water use farming , but you simply dont see many Spaniards moving to sunny Scotland for LP work despite a 25 percent unemployment rate. But you will see eastern Europeans and Asians in the polytunnel work force. As for the sell off of bank assets , ie buildings for housing , well this never materialized , banks were bailed out , and inflated the assets for loan ratios instead offering 100 percent mortgages – the sort of thing that caused the FC in the first place.

            But still we , or should that be the rich mans media , portray the East of Europe as baby eating , job stealing thieves , but also intent to do no work , instead heading to the UK to claim council houses and export benefits to make mansions.

            They are not alone in this assault , the media is pretty good as doing the same of the Scots , or indeed anyone North of Watford , through telly shows from Kyle to “16 kids council housed and on benefits” programming.

            Of course everyone else is protected , no anti gay , nos sexism , no anti religion or Garnetesque Asian telly is allowed , but poverty porn has no race , sexuality or gender , its somehow slipped through the net … so is excluded. We are literately replacing the village stocks for a tv schedule.

            But hey things could be worse , we could be Russian.

  3. Douglas Stuart Wilson says:

    Dovydas, you’re absolutely right, the whole thing is a disgrace and demonstrates that Middle England has gone mad. You have every right to feel furious. I do too.

    You have a country which has been integrating in Europe, its biggest trading partner, for 45 years, and whose Constitution consists to a great extent of EU directives – and note they are directives – made Law. The PM of the UK, the worst British Primer Minister, ever, barring none, then decides, for party political interests, to call a referendum, in the same casual way you might organize a cricket match.

    The campaign is a disgrace, a deliberate and cynical exploitation of the very worst instincts in human beings by the most unethical media in the world. A woman is murdered, Jo Cox, AS A DIRECT RESULT of this campaign. Hundreds of EU citizens in the UK are abused.

    Gordon Brown, who disdains the EU so much he didn’t even bother truning up to sign the Lisbon Treaty, waffles on like a madman in a lunatic on a day our from the asylum, Blair and Major wander about Northern Ireland, poiting out disadvantages there.

    NOBODY explains why the EU is advantageous for business, for peace, for diversity. The case made by 90% of pro EU voices begins, “Well yes, but…”

    NO EU citizens in the UK are given a voice or a vote.

    British citizens living in Europe are treated in a similar fashion, cut off, effectively stateless citizens.

    So let’s be clear.

    This is a historical betrayal of European citizens in Scotland, a historical betrayal of the idea of European solidarity which was forged after WWII, and a historical betrayal of the UK citizens living in Europe.

    This is a betayal of democracy and a concession to mob rule, to tabloid rule…

    This is England’s political Heysel Stadium moment.

    If Scotland doesn’t vote for independence in the EU now, it was a country never worth becoming independent in the first place…

    Solidarity with all Europeans in Scotland, from a Scotsman in Europe…slainte.

    1. Doubting Thomas says:

      Dougie
      I have some news for you……Scotland does not look like voting to leave the UK anytime soon.
      Tam

      1. Coolheads Prevail says:

        Evidence? Links?

        1. Doubting Thomas says:

          Try to keep up.
          The polls are extremely consistent.
          No means No.

  4. Alison Lindsay says:

    Thanks Dovydas, glad you feel welcome in Scotland, this is because we like humanitarian wisdom, where ever from, and are grateful to you for choosing to study here and to your fellow country(wo)men who work here. I personally apologise for any bad working practices from the rUK that students and workers from elsewhere suffer. I will continue to work for a humanitarian free Scotland so that we can be better in the future.

  5. hamish says:

    What is the remedy ? That is our dilemma.

    1. Peter Sellar says:

      Hamish – where there is a political will, there is a way. There are options available which – conveniently, amazingly – allow the UK to remain the UK and Scotland to remain in the EU. But Westminster will have to agree to it…

      http://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/peter-sellar-and-john-bell-will-wales-and-england-go-for-weexit-1-4211929

      PS Thrawn: Offer constructive comments please otherwise you fall into the far-too-common “troll” category of posters.

  6. Thrawn says:

    “You have to be unbelievably privileged, unbelievably lucky to not know what the word “independence” means on that profound a level. My country, Lithuania, was occupied and illegally, after a rigged referendum, annexed, for fifty years by the Soviet Union, from 1940 to 1990. Not long before that, between 1795 and 1918, we had been under the rule of the Russian Empire for over 120 years. These periods of time have left long-lasting traumas on our society, stunted and often downright paralysed our political, economic and cultural development. A {Scottish Independence} activist has not seen their family deported to freezing Siberia at the whim of a totalitarian dictator from another land, and they have not seen the declarations of independence peoples like mine have made to save themselves from that sort of thing. They do not have the right to use that word, as to become independent, you have to have been subjected and oppressed, and {Scotland} is not oppressed. It, however, historically has {joined in the oppression} of other nations all over Africa and Asia and Oceania, which makes {SNP} claims to this word all the more disgusting.”

    Made some substitutions but the sense remained the same

    1. Calgacus says:

      Ever heard of the Highland clearances?Canada was the Siberia for our oppressed,learn some history before spouting off your Britney prejudices

    2. Rab Finlay says:

      Highland Clearances must have been a figment of Scotland’s collective imagination?

      Much of what you brits have practiced on Scotland you have exported to the rest of the globe, ethnic cleansing, concentration camps and drug dealing on an industrial and continental scale.

      You foster the belief that the british empire was a force of good, rather than exploitation and plunder.

      The curtain is coming down on your country, have the grace to exit the stage with dignity!

      1. Thrawn says:

        Yup there is a clear equivalence between the Highland Clearances and Stalinist genocidal purges…

        Also the Clearances were not an action of the state against its people…but private landowners operating under the law…that the law allowed such a cruel and unfair process is another story. Also much of the pain inflicted by the Clearances were at the instigation and hands of fellow Scots…billonaire equivalent 1%er Scots but Scots nonetheless

        Finally it happened 200 years ago….the oppression referred to in the article relates is still fresh in the memory of those who lived through it

        1. Keith MacAllan says:

          The clearances lasted over 150 years and the government based in England turned a blind eye to the atrocities.

          Indeed, they went further and dispatched gun boats post Braes.

          Not only that the land owners and those in Westminster were one and the same.

          200 years ago?

          The consequences of the clearances are with us today, why do you think the glens are still deserted, what an ignorant and ill informed person you are!

          1. Thrawn says:

            You need to grow up…Lithuania over 10 years had 200000 jews exterminated by the Germans and 120000 ethnic Lithuanians deported to Siberian gulags by Stalin

            Over 150 years, 100000 (lets take the most generous figures) people were evicted in undoubtedly cruel and painful circumstances where in most cases they chose…(yes chose because it was easier to move in agroup to an empty continent that to try and integrate into lowland scots towns) to go to Canada and the USA and thrived…so much so that one of thier descendants…may god help us all…is standing for President. The clearances were undertaken by Scots against Scots…Scots in Westminster…Scots with the connivance and most likeley support of British Government (one whos most prominent member Henry Dundas, was a Scot) but Scots nonetheless. The Glens were emptied but with 250000 at peak before the clearances it wasn’t like they were teeming with people.

            To try and equate the two experiences is pathetic and grievance hunting of the most childish kind

      2. Haideng says:

        The Highland clearances were part of a wider land collectivisation that started with the enclosure act in England and included wide spread lowland clearances all across Britain. Only Scottish nationalists wallow in their assumptions of a unique historic grievance blamed on another group of people. Last time I checked the Duke of Sutherland was a Scot and to assume the clearances wouldn’t have happened if Scotland had been independent is selective moral luck tosh.

        1. Heidstaethefire says:

          The Duke of Sutherland was one Francis something Leveson-Gower (not 100% certain of the spelling, I’m doing this from memory), an English industrialist who married into the Scottish aristocracy of the time. As one post has already pointed out, more akin to our present day 1% than anything else.

    3. MBC says:

      Look here Thrawn, Scotland isn’t oppressed, it’s suppressed. Suppressed to the point that we are dragged out of the EU against our clear democratic will.

      Suppressed by being constantly told that we are crap; too wee, too poor, too stupid, etc.. Suppressed by discovering oil, only to become poorer. Yes, us and Nigeria.

      1. Haideng says:

        Stop the childish whinging and stop projecting ffs! The only person who has ever said ‘too wee. too poor, too stupid’ was Swinney. If you want independence start manning up and actual get the SNp to do a decent job of running the country. Find answers to the difficult questions like currency and the economy, come up with a sensible rationale foreign policy that normal people can get on board with rather than endless polemics and binaries and six year/ undergraduate outrage (Britain and America bad therefore Russia good).

        Jesus you nationalists are your own worst enemies. No one else cares!

    4. Graeme Purves says:

      “If I change the words in someone else’s text I can make it say what I want.” That’s not even a trick, it’s simply banal.

  7. w.b.robertson says:

    was in Latvia, Lithuania`s neighbour, in May. the locals of these Baltic countries are all a bit nervous about a return of Russian control. and if it happens they will expect UK-NATO military intervention. irrespective of Brexit.

    1. Graeme Purves says:

      I know Latvia well. It is unfortunate that NATO’s ham-fisted belligerence has served to fuel Putin’s paranoia about encirclement.

  8. bringiton says:

    I have been puzzling over the outbreak of Britnat comments on this site recently and wondering what it is really about.
    The assumption I made was that it was their fear of losing a second Scottish independence referendum but from what I have seen it appears that something else is at work.
    They have hitched their wagon to an establishment which is regarded by most of the world now as being xenophobic,bigoted racists.
    The desire to distance themselves from this is understandable but their continued mantra of Scotland bad,SNP bad won’t wash any more when we see what is on offer (or more likely not) south of our border and their continuing demand that we stick with it.
    No thanks.

    1. Graeme Purves says:

      Their hysteria relates to the collapse of the United Kingdom’s credibility internationally.

  9. MBC says:

    Your letter echoes my feelings exactly. But please be specific, it is England that has the persecution complex, not ‘Britain’. Northern Ireland and Scotland voted decisively to Remain. Wales is not exactly Welsh these days but is full of English. I hate to ‘essentialise’ English people, especially as I know so many who do not hold the views you describe and who are decent progressive liberals. Yet the fact is that such views are widespread in England, among the English. And such views have won. And whilst 72% of those with degrees and higher degrees voted Remain, and 65% of those who voted Leave, left school with only O grades, the fact is that these views are common amongst English Tories and the Tory government, regardless of educational level. A majority of English Labour voters voted Remain. Yet Labour in England is timid and unwilling to challenge the result, which will harm working people and the poor across the British Isles. I really am losing my patience with them and with Scottish No voters (most of them Labour voters) who would shackle Scotland to this rotting corpse of the British Empire that is Little England.

    1. Neil Anderson says:

      I find your comments regarding “the English” offensive. Please stop using this type of language. People are people wherever you go (excuse the Tears for Fears reference) and it matters not where they reside. People voted Leave in the referendum and people voted Remain too. What is important is not their place of birth or national identity, but their reasons for choosing what they chose. A million people in Scotland chose to vote Leave in Scotland (one fifth of the entire population). What must be understood, is the reasons why they voted that way.

      1. MBC says:

        Have you actually read my post? The fact is that there is something far wrong with culture in England. ‘English’ is NOT a racial label as this xenophobic culture affects a large number living in England of all races. Look at Priti Patel. Place rather than race shapes culture and there is something far wrong with it south of the Border.

      2. pop pedant says:

        I think it was Depeche Mode.

      3. bringiton says:

        Not every German supported Hitler but Germany was perceived as a Nazi state by the outside world.

        1. Doubting Thomas says:

          This is the stupidest comment I have ever seen on here.
          As someone who has lived and worked in Germany it became apparent quite quickly the ” we didnae know, we are not Nazis” was a total lie.
          The fact is that more than 97 per cent of the population bought into the party and it is profoundly worrying that history is being rewritten.
          Even after the war the allies were forced to accept that if German society was ever going to return to “order” that party members who had been in the civil service and the justiciary would have to remain as establishment figures.
          Willy Brandt??!!
          In East Germany the Stasi consisted largely of former Gestapo and secret service people who simply reversed their allegiances to the East German regime.
          Don’t let facts get in the way of your post eh?

          1. Doubting Thomas says:

            Nearly forgot the head of NATO forces in Europe was also ex the party!

          2. Doubting Thomas says:

            In case anyone misunderstands my reference to Willy Brandt is regarding his lifetime work to expose what the allies imposed on Germany after the war.
            Typing to quick often diluted the point!

  10. Valerie says:

    A very good piece, Dovydas.

    I think what has become clear to me, from the vote south of the Border, is that there are millions that voted in the misguided belief, that they were still the British Empire. I find that part a bit sad, because that has been whipped up by the elite, with support in large part, from the media.

    For 40 years, the EU project has been the whipping boy for politicians of every hue, giving rise to this false superiority. The reality about the mess rUK is in, is going to hit home hard. Social media is full of Unionists proclaiming ‘ they need us’.

    I can’t figure out what they think rUK produces, that the largest market in the world needs from them. Every day this week comes another smackdown.

    It’s very telling that a lot of English academia have now organised themselves to speak out. Lawyers have mounted a legal challenge in the courts. Where were they prior to the vote? They arrogantly or naively assumed no one would believe the toxic bullshit of the Leave campaign.

    Thankfully, we have a very different view in Scotland, and we have a government that is sincere about working for EVERYONE, and proud to welcome anyone that chooses to live, study, work here.

    Good wishes for your studies, and hope you might find time to support our Independence fight!

    1. Doubting Thomas says:

      That would be the people of Scotland who voted to remain in the UK would it?

      1. Valerie says:

        Whatever. The SG has a mandate, and they are working to it.

        Suck it up.

        1. Doubting Thomas says:

          Oh dear Valerie I fear you are in for a grave disappointment as Wee Krankie is already on the back foot.
          No mandate, no indyref2, no EU.
          Disnae look good!
          She is starting to look a bit like the rest of the political pygmies at Holyrood!

          1. Pilrig says:

            Day off from the Hootsman forum is it , Rufus ?

          2. Doubting Thomas says:

            Hoots mon Pilrig.
            It’s a braw licht moonlicht nicht the nicht.
            Actually old chap one has just been reading about the history of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania and their divisions in the SS.

          3. Graeme Purves says:

            That’s a cheap comment and an ill-informed one. The great majority of the men who served in the Baltic Legions during the Second World War did not do so out of any sympathy with fascism, but in opposition to the Soviet Union which had subjected their countries to a year of brutal occupation between June 1940 and July 1941.

  11. David Rickard says:

    If the author is so outraged and contemptuous of the attitudes that led to the Brexit vote, according to him, one wonders why he does want to stay here. Ironically, his laying down the law of what British people are entitled to believe and do in relation to the EU exemplifies the very contempt for national traditions on the part of the EU that people rejected by voting Leave.

    The truth of the matter is that he doesn’t despise ‘Britain’ but England (and by extension, Wales), who didn’t vote Leave by a narrow margin – as he says – but by 55.5% to 44.5% (outside of London), with mostly working-class people rejecting the elitist EU project.

    Perhaps he should venture south of the border once in a while, and he’ll discover that his compatriots and others from Eastern Europe are generally treated with great courtesy and affection “even in England” – despite the prejudices he spouts in his article.

    1. Douglas Stuart Wilson says:

      The author is just as entitled as any other resident of the UK to criticize Britain, British politics, the food, the weather, whatever he feels like criticizing, without that having any effect on where he happens to reside.

      You are just the typical petty minded Brit natioanalist which the EU was created to at least reduce in numbers.

      You are implying, by your comment, that the author of this article should not be critical of the UK if he lives here. That the right to reside in the UK in not compatible with criticizing the country. An outrageous limitation of freedom of speech – by stealth – and a fine example of the kind of narrow and intolerant streak which ran right through the Brexit campaign…

      ….them / us…Brits / Foreigners….our rights to vomit all over their cities on stag nights / their right to live here as long as they keep their opinion to themselves…

      Double standards, and if cases arise of UK citizens resident in other EU countries being abused, told to go home etc – or even assaulted or murdered – as I have suspicion is inevitable as a direct result of Brexit, people like you, Farage, Cameron and Brown must at least share some of the blame.

      1. Doubting Thomas says:

        As a non tax paying guest in our country he might reflect that he chose to come here and live largely at the expense of the U.K. Taxpayer who contribute so handsomely to his country and its citizens.
        When he has contributed after graduation assuming he stays to try to relay his hospitality then his opinion might be worth listening to.

      2. David Rickard says:

        Of course, he’s entitled to criticise Britain – although what he actually does is laud Scotland and rubbish England, which he’s also entitled to do. So in fact, it might be more accurate to say that he’s chosen NOT to live in the country he’s so critical of: England.

        Equally, though, I think it’s rather invidious of him to urge Scotland on to independence (as if, by implication, Scotland is as oppressed by England / the British state as Lithuania was by Russia and the Soviet Union) and by extension to desire the break up of the state he’s chosen to live in. It would like me going to live in Catalonia, getting behind the cause of Catalan independence and at the same time complaining about the hostility of Spanish people towards immigrants.

        For your information, I’m not a British nationalist but an English nationalist: of the civic, not ethnic, kind. I want national self-government for England, which is an even more remote possibility with the UK inside the EU than outside – hence, the appeal of Brexit. And if Brexit drives Scotland out of the UK (which I’m agnostic about: Scotland’s decision), then it will de facto bring about English self-government: win win all round.

        As for your other comments about British double standards and bad behaviour on the Continent, I think it’s more likely to be that bad behaviour that makes continentals inclined to boot Brits out of their country (justifiably) rather than anything Farage, Cameron or Brown (that vehement pro-Remainer) have said or done.

        1. Doubting Thomas says:

          David
          My response after yours was meant for DSW.
          Well said!

        2. Douglas Stuart Wilson says:

          David Rickard, are you reading a different article than I am? The author does not mention the oppression of the Baltic State by Russia to bolster the case for Scottish independence.

          On the contrary, he mentions that real oppression suffered by Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia for decades in order to contrast it with the sham and bogus “oppression” which the Brexiteers claim to have suffered from Brussels, which they will presumably no longer suffer having become “independent”.

          EU directives are passed by the British Parliament and thereby made law by its democratically elected MPs. There has never been any “oppression” from Brussels.

          As for independence, the people of Scotland are going to be subjected to a scale of change due to Brexit which far exceeds anything which an indie Scotland in the EU might have led to. We’re talking about something like 40% of our laws if I am not mistaken.

          As far as I understand the author, given these new circumstances, and as an EU resident in what is still an EU country, he would rather retain his current status through the device of Scottish independence.

          It makes perfect sense to me. All the EU citizens resident in Scotland now have a good motive to go out and vote YES to Scottish independence at the next referendum. Why shouldn’t they? If they pay their taxes in Scotland, they are entitled to a vote.

          1. David Rickard says:

            The author set up an emotional link between Lithuanian independence from the USSR and Scottish indpendence from the UK. So, Lithuanian independence and Scottish independence are real and positive; but UK and English independence from the EU is sham. Well, it feels like independence to me. The fact that, according to you, 40% of Scottish laws will have to be amended after Brexit rather points to the reality of EU power over UK legislation. Yes, of course the UK parliament passed the bills; but they had a treaty obligation to do so.

            Anyway, I don’t think Dovydas could vote in a second indy referendum – unless, of course, he wants to take up UK citizenship!

          2. You have taken back control at last David, congratulations. Freedom must be truly sweet.

      3. Doubting Thomas says:

        Btw sensationalising possible events does nothing to bring credibility to your argument.
        It is way off the mark!

        1. Doubting Thomas says:

          This was also meant for DSW!

    2. Freddie M says:

      David,

      His ‘outraged’ writing style and convenient use of omission as fact, is not dissimilar to a certain editor on this site.

      Just saying.

      1. Ha! Wonderful! I love it – rather than cope with the reality that a great many European citizens are hugely concerned by the chaos of Brexit and the wave of xenophobia it evoked, you accuse me of pretending to be Lithuanian.

        That sound we can hear is the scraping of the barrel of an argument lost.

        1. Haideng says:

          hahahaha… you been rumbled Mike.

  12. A yates says:

    You have your country and we will have ours we have carried you lot long enough!

  13. Freddie M says:

    Hi Dovydas,

    First I like to state that I voted to remain and see myself as European and also feel furious about Brexit and broadly agree with what you wrote. But I have a few questions also.

    You see I find it hard to reconcile your position. I’m English (of English and Iranian parentage- father fled persecution after 79 for not being Islamic enough) but spent my entire life in Scotland (born in London) But raised from the age of 3 years old in Inverness. I too love this country and the people (some of them)

    Why doesn’t the same sentiment apply for Scottish independence? During the indyref, the English in Scotland were marginalised, aside from a few patronising token (ooh look my best mate is Black) type English useful idiots trotted out to put lipstick on the Scottish nationalist pig. During the indyref, there were many assertions about citizenship rights of English born but who live in Scotland (or call it their home) but the truth was it was highly discriminatory (to Scots living in England also + Eu citizens). At the moment I live abroad for work. Had I been lving abroad on the day of independence I would have had to apply for naturalisation and most likely had to give up my British passport. There are thousands of people in the same predicament (both Welsh and English and EU citizens). This was stated clearly in the only proper academic study on post indy citizenship by the University of Edinburgh – The link is attached. Also in arts, politics, language, in fact all civic life there has been an anti English agenda – the founder and editor of this site actually called for a ‘social audit’ on English in public positions. I’m still trying to decide if my doctor father is a ‘Settler or a Colonist’ or is he neither because he’s Iranian? Is he OK but my mother not?

    A few questions: Would be obliged if they could be answered as I’m interested in other people’s perspective.

    1) As has been repeated stated – more people in England per capita voted to remain than in Scotland. The lowest remain vote was in Glasgow with a meagre 52% – how can you claim Brexit is just an English and Welsh thing?

    2) The ECHR is upheld in Scotland through the UK supreme court (acts on behalf as a proxy due to the massive backlog in Strasbourg) Yet consistently it has been Scottish Nationalist policy to withdraw from the UK supreme court (which has Scottish Judges on it for Scottish law) and thus the EHCR in order to replace it with a simialr Scottish bill of rights (just like the Tories). In fact the Salmond government threatened withdraw funding.

    3) You are Lithuanian yet you support a Scottish Nationalism that openly supports Putin (and is supported by) and Russia and wants to withdraw from NATO and get rid of Trident? This I find bizzare given Russia expansionist aims. – See Sputnik TV, the head of YES campaign now works for them and this site openly supports Russian propagandist state TV in Edinburgh (there was a reason why Spunik TV was located in Scotland and not becasue Putin particularly gives a toss about Scotland but to undermine the UK).

    4) Had Scottish independence gone ahead then there was no guarantee that Scotland would remain in the EU with the same rights – it would in the best case option have to reapply, a process that would discriminate (just like Brexit to thousands of Scots living elsewhere in the EU).

    5) Are you seriously comparing Scottish independence and with Russian domination of Lithuania. How do you feel when Scottish nationalists compare themselves in a similar way as Brexiters as being ‘oppressed’, There are multiple articles on this site claiming such.

    I fully agree with you about the stupid xenephobia of nationalism and Brexit but fail to see how it consistently follows that you are then a Scottish nationalist? Surely overlapping cosmopolitan mutlinational solutions are preferable?

    Would really like to hear your thoughts?

    1. So much nonsense not sure where to start. How about: ‘You are Lithuanian yet you support a Scottish Nationalism that openly supports Putin’.

      What’s that supposed to mean?

      1. Valerie says:

        The whole diatribe from Freddie is complete tinfoil hat territory. It is fairly unique stuff though, SNP supports Putin?

        What does this mean?

        “Surely overlapping cosmopolitan mutlinational solutions are preferable?”

      2. Haideng says:

        Seriously Mike, every single article on the Sputnik TV thing here on Bella has been apologist for Russian aggression and expansion absurdly comparing the BBC with them. Most normal middle of the road people are bemused by this proximity to Putin’s Russia. All it does is alienate the masses who are needed if Scotland is to become independent. It’s total nonsense. Blaming the Ukraine or the Baltics for democratically choosing to join NATO or the EU given the history with Russia for that matter is contemptible. It like blaming the wife for aggravating the abusive husband, or like blaming the Czechs for the Sudatenland when Hitler marched in.

        The more I read and listen to Scottish nationalists like yourself, the more I realise how utterly unworldy you lot are.

      3. Thrawn says:

        Alex Salmond 2014

        “He (Putin) has restored a substantial part of Russian pride and that must be good thing”

        Vladimir Putin 2014

        “I would like to make it clear to all: this country will actively defend the rights of russians, our compatriots abroad using the entire range of available means”
        (Lithuania has 5% self identified ethic Russians…Latvia and Estonia 25%)

        1. Graeme Purves says:

          Is that really the best you can come up with?

  14. Freddie M says:

    Sorry I forgot the Link.

    http://www.citsee.ed.ac.uk/working_papers/files/CITSEE_WORKING_PAPER_2013-34.pdf

    And also, with respect must disagree with you on the SNP who have a very strong anti Europe section and tradition – see past policy. Scottish Nationalism is neither pro nor against the EU. They only care in so far that it suits their agenda – this is why many Yes voters deliberately abstained, so that it was non result for Scottish nationalism – if they had voted to leave the EU they would have claimed similar arguements to the Indyref.

    This site has posted many anti EU articles to do with TTIP and have openly advocated leaving the EU also. Do you not find it suspicious that they now attack similar arguments made by the like of Jeremy Corbyn?

  15. Freddie M says:

    To clarify, Scottish citizenship was not automatic – you could not choose.

    Automatic if

    1) Born elsewhere but living in Scotland on the day of independence.

    2) Scottish parentage.

    Non automatic, having to apply for citizenship/ naturalisation with no guarantee of success (+ meaning giving up other passports in most countries apart from the UK surprisingly but the most probable outcome in and Indy Scotland due to the large numbers of people abroad who have Scottish heritage – simply put dual citizenship would have been unworkable – there are more Scots living in London than Dundee who could vote on Scottish issues – voting rights being a primary constituent of citizenship. 1 million with voting rights in England alone – totally unworkable, so most likely Scots in England would be denied the right to be both British – just as there is asymetry between Ireland and UK in citizenship conditions due to relative size).

    1) Have lived in Scotland all your life, speak Gaelic and Doric, English with a Scottish accent, have been educated entire in Scotland and do not call England home.

    2) Are Scottish born, but just like Brexit if living abroad were denied a voice on the future of your country?

    Are these people. Me! not a consideration for exactly the reasons that makes you so rightfully angry about Brexit?

    1. Haideng says:

      clearly not Freddie. Xenephobia and discrimination it seems is only an issue when it applies to non English people.

  16. Viktorija says:

    Thanks, Dovydas, for the article, well written and just to the point. There is no actual democracy in UK, it’s all smoking mirrors, and UK has not shed its imperialistic airs and still lives in the 19th century at best. However, the world has moved on, where celebrating the diversity became the key to economic competitiveness to countries (e.g. Steve Jobs, Syrian by background).
    If Lithuania could make it after breaking away from USSR and become the 4th strongest EU economy based on GDP in 2015 and that is without oil, gas or whisky, so can Scotland.
    One should always treat or look at their country as their family – would you like a third party come at tell you how to run your home and your household? Don’t think so.

    1. Thrawn says:

      Lithuania has a flat rate 15% Income tax and 15% Corporation tax and overall the lowest taxation as percentage of GDP in the EU…looking forward to Bella Caledonia endorsing that as a model for Scottish independence

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