2007 - 2021

Racism, Rangers and the Fourth Estate

From a distance all of this looks dangerously unpleasant.

Black shirted youths marching through the centre of Glasgow with what  looked remarkably like a police escort.

Moreover, the young men were singing a song that was ruled racist by the High Court in Edinburgh in 2009.

“The Famine is over why don’t you go home?”

This song had  emerged in 2008 after UEFA had ruled that the favourite anthem at Ibrox, The Billy Boys, was discriminatory.

“We are up to our knees in Fenian blood” is the key lyric.

That song is about a Glasgow street gang from the inter-war years .

It’s eponymous leader, Billy Fullerton, was an associate of Oswald Mosley and a card carrying member of the Ku Klux Klan.

When I started to write about the Famine Song in 2008,  I faced a journalistic struggle to get the mainstream media to take on board the fact that it was racist.

“Irish isn’t a race” was the regular trope.

Several opinion-formers within Scottish sports journalism even deployed the banter defence for the genocide choir at Ibrox.

It wasn’t a good look.

As readers of Bella will know, there is politics in everything.

If the Famine Song was racist then it had to be targeted against someone on the basis of their ethnicity.

Accepting that it was a manifestation of anti-Irish racism meant that, ipso facto, there was an I Irish community extant in modern Scotland.

That was pushing against a dominant narrative in the country for all of the 20th century.

Now, the scourge of anti-Irish racism is openly debated in the Scottish parliament with First Minister Nicola Sturgeon fully on message that there is no place in Scotland for this traditionally authorised hatred.

Since the celebratory riot in George Square after IndyRef in 2014 the Ibrox klanbase have increasingly become more confident about their ability to dominate the public space in the city with no opposition from law enforcement.

Last March, after clinching their first ever league title win, fans of the club broke covid lock down rules gathered at the stadium and then marched en masse to George Square.

There was mobile phone footage of them being  given a police escort  in a city under pandemic restrictions.

This was merely a warm-up act for the chaos in the same public space last May.

Estimated 15,000 gathered and  attacked police and emergency workers.

Of course, it wouldn’t be a gathering of the Ibrox klan without anti-Irish racism.

Holy Cross

I am aware of a sizeable contingent left the Northeast of this country (Ireland) to take part in that fascist street theatre.

I’m mindful that this is the 20th anniversary of members of that subculture screaming at terrified children going to Holy Cross school in Belfast.

They had to run a gauntlet of “men” who had been socialised by the same belief system that  created the Famine Song in 2008 and wrecked George Square last May.

Since then Celtic’s new signing from Japan, Kyogo Furuhashi, was racially abused by supporters of the Ibrox club.

Once more, there was mobile phone footage that proved that it was slam dunk case.

The Rangers PR  operation, headed by ex-Belfast city councillor David Graham of the DUP, did move swiftly to punish those responsible on the bus to Dingwall.

However, in the aftermath of the Famine Song ensemble marching through Glasgow last week  I have yet to see the term “anti-Irish racism” used in a club statement.

The folk who run the current entity at Ibrox know their customer base.

And they are base indeed.

But we also have a serious problem with at best the silence and at worst the complicity of the Scottish media with the clubs conduct. There are some notable exceptions:

The old attitudes that were once mainstream in Scotland, as espoused in the infamous Church and National Committee report in 1923, are still mainstream at Ibrox.

In football parlance the inadequate messaging coming out of New Rangers is an open goal for any functioning Fourth Estate.

Instead too many still cling to the Sectarian/Old Firm paradigm.

This is self-serving and cowardly.

Excise the ethnic from the analysis and the Irish community are simultaneously denied and discriminated against.

Even the BBC tried dress up the Famine Song march as “Old Firm” and “Sectarian”.

Thankfully they were swiftly called out by James Dornan MSP.

Heart and Hand

Since the new season started the Ibrox club has been charging £25k for media access.

This has irked some on the sports desks who are legendary in their sycophantic coverage of matters Ibrox.

Now today the Daily Record has actually done some journalism on the chaps behind the Heart and Hand podcast.

Journalist Mark McGivern uncovered a smorgasbord of racism sectarianism and misogyny in the social media accounts of those involved in this New Media outfit.

It is especially newsworthy because they are official media partners of the Ibrox club.

The host of the Heart and Hand podcast is Mr David Edgar.

He recently featured on GB News as  he contributed to a piece on the SNP’s alleged problem with Rangers.

Edgar first came to prominence in 2008 when he was the face of the Rangers Trust.

Back then, before he re-invented himself as a podcaster, he  was a regular on several media outlets.

One of his main duties was to defend, yes, the Famine Song!

 

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  1. Squigglypen says:

    These demented halfwits should research their ancestry.
    Many families in the west of Scotland came from Ireland during the famine in Ireland 1850 ish. We did…All great grandparents from the South of Ireland..Limerick and Dublin .. minus one from the Highlands( no English spoken and probably Catholic). The Irish lot were a mix of Catholic and Protestant.And all of them worked very hard to establish themselves. Today our family is a mix of both religions…. but we are all Scottish. Maybe the real ‘Scots’ are the Picts!( do you have purple skin….?)
    My answer to the problem? Get rid of football. Shinty’s a tough game…makes football look sad…

    1. Gashty McGonnard says:

      You might want to reconsider. I can’t see an Old Firm match played with camain ending well 😉

  2. Graham Ennis says:

    I must start by declaring an interest.
    I am an irish Citizen. I know I am, it says so on my passpart.
    Also, during the last war there in the north, Friends of mine were killed, one died on a hunger strike,
    Several ended up in the notorious Long Kesh concentration camp. This what happens in a war. (always refreered to on the mainland press as “The troubles.”
    33,000 prisoners passed through the Northern ireland prison system. Nearly all suffered extreme brutality. 30,000 local p[eople were wonmdedf and injured. About 4000 were killed. English death sqauds killed many. That war lasted 30 years. I say all this, so you will know where I am coming from. I suffered my fair share of harrasment here, as an irish citizen and a supporter of a united Ireland. You did not actually have to do anything to warrant this. Just making public speeches and protesting the situation in Ireland was enough. Most English people were hostile, or ignorant of what was going on. The tabloids were careful to avoid stories about the abductions, torture, killings, the ethnic cleansing that went on, etc. etc.
    So why am I saying this?
    Simple. I am telling those in Scotland reading this what to expect. Curious that at a time when the actual vote in the referendum was unknown, a racist black shirted mob, with police support, ran amok in Scotland. You may be assured amny more would have followed, and a deliberate ethnic confrontation would have developed as in the North of Ireland. The tactics of that were taken straight out of the book of British Empire counter insurgency tactics.
    With the flow of events now happening, I think people will now have to start facing hard facts.
    It is now clear that everything will be done by the English establishment to stop an independent Scotland. Expect the worst.
    It will come, sooner or later, in the next few years, as the central issue of independence is bound to be the result of BREXIT, which is now throughing the UK economy into a serious internal crisis. The present London Goverment will doubtless try the same tactics as in Northern Ireland. All of this may sound alarmist, but is based on hard fact. A large amount of the support, logistics, and weapons for the Unionist paramilitaries came from Scotland. This means that the same cadre of unionist extremists still exists in Scotland, but will probably be used in the same way as in the Irish conflict. Or as the Romans used to say: “Divide and rule.” What happend with the hardline racists in Scotland reently, is a very dangerous enemy within. Discuss.

    1. Adrian Leslie says:

      I abhor sectarianism and racism in all its forms.

      You made reference to English death squads/brutality and as expected you made no mention of the brutality of the IRA who murdered their fellow citizens by planting indiscriminate bombs in towns and city centres. They also were a sectarian organisation- check out Kingsmill, the Darkley Massacre, the ethnic cleansing of Protestants in border areas etc… If you’re going to refer to history, tell the full story, not just the one that is being rewritten by Irish Republicans.

      1. Colin Robinson says:

        But that’s different, Adrian. Those were just the actions of a nationalist community resisting/defending itself against the English occupation, which is every nation’s natural right and therefore entirely justified. Don’t you know that Scotland also might rightfully take up arms against the English should they continue to refuse us our independence?

      2. Gerry Graham says:

        I think you’ll find that the reason the IRA campaign started was due to the amount of brutal beatings of Catholics in the North..Hope this enlightens you

    2. Alan Webster says:

      I hope you are wrong but I fear you are right

    3. William Davison says:

      I suggest you obtain a copy of the definitive account of all those who died in the Northern Ireland “Troubles,” namely “Lost Lives : The stories of the men, women and children who died as a result of the Northern Ireland troubles,” by David McKittrick, Seamus Kelters, Brian Feeney, Chris Thornton and David McVea. A collective of journalists and historians they spent years researching the circumstances of each death and detailed the organizations they held responsible for each death. Of the 3720 people killed 2158, or 57.8% of the total, were killed by the I.R.A. or other Republicans, 1112, or 29.9 % of the total, by Loyalists, 367, or 9.9% of the total, by the police, army, or other state forces. As these figures would suggest most of the murdering and maiming was done by paramilitary groups, with Republicans outdoing Loyalists by almost 2 to 1, including killing 639 civilians from both religious communities. I would also add that the author of this article supported this campaign of human rights abuse and wrote for the Provisional I.R.A.’s propaganda sheet while it was going on.
      On the question of anti-Irish racism, I’m Irish myself, and would humbly suggest there is no such thing as an Irish “race,” any more than there is such a thing as a Scottish, or English “race..” It is bizarre to see this discredited language resurrected in the 21st century, having been previously used to caricature Irish people in the 19th. The case presented by the author is an extremely flimsy one : a group of bevvied up “Blue Order” teenagers singing a naughty song in the wake of an Old Firm game is supposed to suggest that all Rangers supporters and, no doubt, wider Scottish society is/are mired in anti-Irish “racism.” By the same token I suppose a group of equally bevvied up “Green Brigade” teenagers singing in praise of the depredations of physical force Irish nationalism should be taken as proof of widespread anti-British “racism.” Er no, these are just two groups of rival football fans singing songs they think will annoy/upset the other lot, it has no meaning in wider society. Irish people of both the Green and Orange variety have been coming to Scotland in large numbers since the early 19th century, they constitute around a third of the population of west- central Scotland. Recent academic studies have shown that over 50% of people of Irish Catholic descent now marry outside that community, among those co-habiting the number is even greater. In my frequent visits to Glasgow I come across a lot of (mainly northern)Irish people, who are studying/working in the city. If there was an atmosphere of anti-Irish “racism” would they be so willing and happy to come, but then they are coming to a city where the descendants of previous waves of Irish migrants seem happy to intermingle and coalesce with the “indigenous” community. It seems that the author and others are desperately trying to make a case that is not borne out by proper academic research and are increasingly grasping at straws to do so.

      1. Sean Whelan says:

        Hello. Your presentage ratings of who killed who are all wrong, You seem to have left out the murders of loyalist death squads with the help of the State forces. Unless you have excess to the records of the murders the Parachute Regiment got away with,also the records of the SAS,the shoot to kill policy of the RUC (shoot first ask questions later) and do you have the records of the Special Branch who answer to no-one.

        IT’S NOT THOSE WHO CAN INFLICT
        THE MOST PAIN , BUT THOSE WHO
        CAN INDURE THE MOST PAIN
        SHALL WIN.

        1. William Davison says:

          These are not my figures, they were the figures arrived at by the historians and journalists who compiled what is regarded as the definitive account of all the killings during the Troubles. The book they produced is almost 1,700 pages long and they take fully into account the activities of the Glenanne Gang and others and the claims of collusion. Events like Bloody Sunday and Ballymurphy are covered in detail, as is the killing by the Paras of two civilians on the Shankill Road, which caused unionist politicians to call for their withdrawal. I was merely trying to balance what Graham Ennis was saying in his somewhat garbled contributions, which gives the impression that “The English” carried out most of the killings. Most of the killings (and maimings and tortures) were carried out by either Loyalist or Republican paramilitaries. Most of the pain was endured by the ordinary people of Northern Ireland, who got on with their lives and wanted nothing to do with these people.

      2. Billy the Cud says:

        Does the compliant presence of Scottish Police officers not cause you any concern whatsoever?

        Are you so unaware of the unconcealed links with extreme right wing activists that you can’t join the huge and staring-you-in-the-face-obvious blood-orange and EDL-red dots?

  3. Colin Robinson says:

    On what basis do you claim that ‘the Irish’ are a ‘race’?

    Folk taxonomies that define essential types of individuals based on perceived phenotypical traits (‘biological essentialism’) have been considered obsolete for a long time now. Modern science regards race as a social construct, an identity that’s assigned based on rules made up to facilitate the sectarian purpose of ’othering’.

    Why are you perpetuating our national disease by insisting that ‘the Irish’ are a ‘race’? Is it just to stir up trouble?

    1. Graham Ennis says:

      I am not stirring up trouble. I am being factual. We irish are proud of our ancestry, which can be traced back about 4000 years. (although the original Irish were joined by a substantial influx from northern spain about 1000 BC. Genetically, we are from the same group of “Keltai” (many spellings of this) which was widespread in Western Europe then. We are not in the main, Anglo Saxons, who are of germanic origin. This is just to get the Genepool right. The North of Ireland has a lot of people in the unionist community that actually camew from Scotland, originally. (In several waves). just to establish the gentic basis of the “Irish”. who now live there. The existance of a group of several million people, living for some thousands of years, in a place called “Ireland” is a fact. We are not polynesians, Semites, arctic racial and cultural groups, or asian. There are numbers of these groups in Ireland, but not in large numbers. Most English are Anglo-saxons, with some Norman/Scandinavian input.

      Before the Cromwellian invsion, conquest and genocide of the Irish in the 16th century, (50% or more murdered) most spoke irish. Irish comes from Northern spain and Western France. (Then). Most people consider that a group of people, from a single culture, living on a large Island, for a considerable period of time, constitute a “Race”. Most Irish consider themselves to be Celts. The celts who live in Ireland are called irish. Celts are genetically distinct fro Canadian Innuit, polynesians, Chinese, etc. In Irteland, nobody cares about this. It is the least racist country in Europe. (The Republic, not the occupied North). Inspte o0f the second Genocide conducted by the English Goverment in the 1800’s, where about another 60% of the piopulation died, or fled as famine refugees, etc etc. None of this is probably known to you. It is not racist, to explain the racial and cultural origins of the Irish, or their attempted extermination by the Lodon Goverment of the time, to make way for sheep farming and cattle raising. What is racist, is for people who know little of the racial origins of the irish, there history, and the waves of racial extermination against them, which they survived, but with great damage to our society, culture, and language, (See Encyclopedia entries under “British Empire”. ) Percentage wise, we are probably on a level with the jews, who also suffered. Morally, culturally, and spiritually, outsiders have no right to ignore us, inorant of what has happened to us, and our terrible history, before consulting some history. Please shut up. Thank You
      Graham Ennis

    2. Gashty McGonnard says:

      You’ve answered your own question there, Colin.

      When one group in a society constructs an identity for some other citizens for purposes of othering and discrimination, based on ancestry, then that’s racism, regardless of how fuzzily defined or patently absurd the construction might be. To that extent only, the discriminated section of society may be regarded as a “race” in order to discuss the problem, and so as not to deny their lived experience of discrimination.

      The Nazis classified many people as Jews who weren’t Jewish by any sane measure. That doesn’t imply that Nazis were not racist, or that their victims weren’t forced to perceive themselves as a “race”.

      I’d prefer “a group subject to racism” as more accurate than “a race” in this situation. I’m sure a vast majority of Scots with Irish-Catholic ancestry consider themselves Scottish for all purposes. I’m also sure a majority have multiple nationalities in their family backgrounds, like everyone else.

      Regardless, the point is that the term “sectarianism” has been a smokescreen in the past for what is clearly racism, as that term is defined in law. Every racist knows that racism can land them in bother and make them a pariah: which is why the use of the term by society at large for this issue may become a big part of resolving it.

      [For avoidance of doubt, I’m not comparing anyone to Hitler, just making a general point. And yes, I know that plenty of Rangers fans want nothing to do with the songs/attitudes in question.]

      1. Daniel Raphael says:

        Well said.

      2. Colin Robinson says:

        I get that, Gashty. Some Rangers supporters demonise some other folk as ‘Irish’, and their victims are obliged to become complicit in that racism (i.e. identify as ‘Irish’) in order for their victimhood to be recognised and acknowledged.

        But the article goes beyond that, to insinuate that there’s some sinister establishment conspiracy behind those Rangers supporters; that the ‘Irish’ are being persecuted by the Scottish establishment generally on the basis of some essential biological difference.

        But the article presents no evidence of such a conspiracy, just innuendo. And given that there’s politics in everything, I just wonder whose political interests – whose will to power – the insinuation of an establishment conspiracy against the so-called ‘Irish’ in Scotland serves.

        1. Gashty McGonnard says:

          That I don’t know. To me it seems the political incumbents and the cops are just doing what they can to manage a toxic cultural neurosis – never easy.

          Maybe the OP author had some other form of ‘establishment’ in mind?

          If he hopes that everybody who’s targeted for offence by the ‘Famine Song’ will join together as a homogeneous ethnic grouping in resistance – he’s onto plums. Most people of Irish origin in Scotland these days are well integrated and embedded… at least that’s my own experience as somebody meeting the definition. They’d prefer complete integration and no othering (which is not the same as utter assimilation, though). There’s certainly little will to further inflame some racist paradigm by endorsing it.

          1. Colin Robinson says:

            When I was a lad, I was brought up in a self-consciously Protestant community. The sectarianism by which that community identified itself was directed towards Catholics in general rather than any particular ‘race’. ‘Poles’, ‘Ukrainians’, ‘Lithuanians’, ‘Italians’, ‘Irish’ were barely distinguished as such and tolerated with equal distrust as outsiders.

            But maybe things are different now. Maybe it’s the phenotypical ‘Irishness’ of the ‘Irish’, rather than their Catholicism, in antagonism to which Loyalists seek to identify themselves nowadays.

          2. Gashty McGonnard says:

            I suppose the pretence of Christianity wasn’t cutting it any more. Hard to fight over that when neither you nor the other guy has ever uttered a prayer.

            There’s still enough cultural/behavioural/genotypic shibboleths to identify the object of ones disaffections, though it takes a trained eye. Some ardour may be lost through secularisation.

          3. Colin Robinson says:

            When I said ‘Protestant community’ I didn’t mean to suggest that it had any particular religious orientation. In fact, there was a strong current of anticlericalism running through its Protestantism. It was more a kind of Burnsian libertarian thing, of which the pestilential authoritarianism of the Catholic Church and the despicable servility of its adherents was perceived to be the very antithesis. Catholic clergy were never away from the doors of the Catholic families in the village, whereas the local minister had the good sense to leave his largely absent flock alone.

            Basically, we called ourselves ‘Protestants’ only to signal that we weren’t Catholics, and celebrated King Billy as the figurehead of the Glorious Revolution that overthrew the tyranny of Catholic absolutism in the state.

            But, of course, nowadays militant Protestantism has acquired a ‘racist ‘significance. It’s all about victimising the ‘Irish’ and asserting the superiority of the ‘English’ as distinct phenotypes. This victim narrative better fits the grudge and grievance politics of ethnic nationalism.

      3. Dee says:

        When one group in a society constructs an identity for some other citizens for purposes of othering and discrimination, based on ancestry, then that’s racism, regardless of how fuzzily defined or patently absurd the construction might be. To that extent only, the discriminated section of society may be regarded as a “race” in order to discuss the problem, and so as not to deny their lived experience of discrimination.

        So when Celtic and Independence supporters in Scotland describe anyone with links to Rangers as Dirty Orange [email protected] is this racist also?
        Is it the same with Hun? When other football supporters in Scotland assumed to be Protestant are known as Ayrshire Huns, Diet Huns etc.
        Surely thats constructing an identity to other also?

        I am first generational Irish and have made Scotland my home due to my spouse. I have seen the main Political party in Scotland deliberately “Ulsterise” politics with Unionist/Nationalist terms for their own end. I have seen as many disgusting sectarian slurs from our own Celtic support as I have encountered by fans of the New club in Glesga.

        Until its recognised the hatred stems from both sides and stop trying to dehumanise one sect then the problem will remain. I am from Lenadoon, I grew up in the worst of the conflict in the 6 counties but have had a father killed by the supposed defenders of Ireland. If a large section of our support continue to romanticise Terrorists then Scotland will never grow up. Same on the other side but let he without sin cast the first stone.

        Another issue is the Author, coming from Scotland and glorifying Republicanism when he knew nothing about it in its heyday. These types are whats wrong with Scotland, and the North of Ireland. Playing on words to spread ones own narrow mindedness and bigotry is only adding to the problem.

        1. Tom Ultuous says:

          Is it not similar to black people hating the KKK? Sure, if they hate all white people then that’s racist.

          I know all Sevco fans are not fascists but a majority of them are backslappers, vote tory, cheer on Chelsea, think Manchester & George Square were funny and generally go with the flow. Hun is not a term for protestant.

          1. Dee says:

            Your first sentence is astounding, why hate anyone? You clearly hate people based on their voting preference or which football team they support. I’m sure the vast majority of Rangers fans coming from a Protestant persuasion has nothing to do with it Tom. Indeed.

            Hun is every bit a derogatory term for Protestant as Fenian is for Catholic. Why then are Kilmarnock, Airdrie, Hearts fans also called Huns if they are clearly not Sevco fans?

            I’ve grew up in a civil war, based on intolerance and ignorance. I’ve been a part of that scene before I can see now what it was. Don’t fall into the same trap. Don’t let the colour of someones tshirt dictate that you hate them. Until you see that for yourself I utterly feel sorry for you. Our own fans sing Rebel songs and claim themselves as fenians, yet you are outraged when others take issue with this? Until we as a club and support drop the pretence that our own hatred and bigotry is an issue, Scotland will continue to Ulsterise itself. Sad times indeed.

          2. Tom Ultuous says:

            I didn’t say I hated anyone. I said no one would begrudge black people hating the KKK and if “ALL TAIGS ARE TARGETS” it’s easy to understand why there’s little love and understanding being sent in the direction of those who align themselves with that shit. I appreciate what you’re saying about the civil war but you know there’s a hardcore of those on the other side who will never let go till they’re marching down the Garvaghy Road and they don’t lack support from the theatre of hate.

            “Why then are Kilmarnock, Airdrie, Hearts fans also called Huns if they are clearly not Sevco fans?”

            They previously were. It’s probably outdated now as I’ve heard many Hearts fans say their support detest Sevco more than Celtic, this being the fallout from the sense of entitlement shown by Sevco and their fans after the liquidation of Rangers.

          3. Dee says:

            I didn’t say I hated anyone. I said no one would begrudge black people hating the KKK and if “ALL TAIGS ARE TARGETS” it’s easy to understand why there’s little love and understanding being sent in the direction of those who align themselves with that shit. I appreciate what you’re saying about the civil war but you know there’s a hardcore of those on the other side who will never let go till they’re marching down the Garvaghy Road and they don’t lack support from the theatre of hate.

            “Why then are Kilmarnock, Airdrie, Hearts fans also called Huns if they are clearly not Sevco fans?”

            They previously were. It’s probably outdated now as I’ve heard many Hearts fans say their support detest Sevco more than Celtic, this being the fallout from the sense of entitlement shown by Sevco and their fans after the liquidation of Rangers.

            Yet you really don’t see the irony. My son in law is an Ibrox season ticket holder and a staunch Unionist, yet he takes me to Mass every single sunday since I had my fall. Does he see me as a Fenian? A practicing Roman Catholic, that despises the IRA thugs that murdered my father becuase he had the audacity to beat one up in a pub fight? No he doesn’t. But if I ask him what he thinks of the Green Brigade he seethes, he sees them as kiddy on Terrorists that despise his country. So he hates them and calls them fenians, isn’t that similar to your KKK hating black friends?

            The issue at play here is nopthing but terminology. Simply because fenian has been criminalised to a greater extent than DOB and Hun, many in our diasapora can claim that they are racist/sectarian thugs. Of which many are no doubt by the way. However many from our own tribe are equally as bad but can claim ignorance as the words they use to portray their intolerance aren’t as nasty in the eyes of many. But the hatred is still there.

            I’m speaking as someone that rioted with “huns” throughout my childhood. But I’ve grown as a person and called it out on myself. We can’t allow a group like Green Brigade to display Republican Terrorist nonsense then cry wolf when someone sings a song in response. Until we call out our own prejudice we have no right to lecture anyone else.

            Re Hearts, I’ve heard them referred to as Diet Huns about 100 times since start of season. Whatever way you justify it in your mind, it is still a sectarian term to those football fans perceived to be Protestant. Trust me, I’ve grown up in West Belfast for most of my life when we’ve came across huns we didn’t care what football team they supported.

            I’ve grown up, take my advice and look at your own mindset and we can all live in a better society.

          4. Tom Ultuous says:

            Dee, As far as the Green Brigade are concerned, I think I’d prefer my kid to be among them helping unfurl a rainbow banner emblazoned “A club open to all” on pride day than be singing along to “Could you go a chicken supper Bobby Sands” with “our brave boys” on armed forces day at the theatre of hate. I daresay your son-in-law would disagree. Yes the GB despise Britishness as do I. British is no longer a nationality, it’s a mentality. You seem to be associating the KKK with the wrong side.

            I’m also not sure where you’re coming from on the “diet huns” having a protestant support. Half the Celtic fans are probably “protestant”. I’d have backed Luther’s protest against the Catholic church refusing to print the bible in other languages. Does that make me a protestant? I’m sure you know the history of Hearts & Kilmarnock fans singing orange songs back in the day. I’m sure you can also remember the contrasting styles the Kilmarnock team played when they met Celtic on the last day of a season decided on goal difference versus meeting Rangers in similar circumstances (3 down in 7 mins – is that even possible?). Then there’s Airdrie fans serenading Tommy Robinson and Hearts fans with Tommy Robinson masks. The ‘diet huns’ has stuck. Who cares? BTW Aberdeen fans detest Sevco fans and vice-versa. Does that make Aberdeen a Catholic team.

          5. Tom Ultuous says:

            Where did I say I’d be happy for my child to be among the Green Brigade? Re your scenario, on a betting forum I used to frequent a Sevco supporter posted a video taken at a Europa League away game (I think it was Portugal). In it several young Sevco fans pick up a local homeless man and throw him in the fountain while hundred of Sevco fans stand around laughing. I responded to the post by saying I had little doubt there existed Celtic fans who would throw a homeless man in a fountain but I would be very surprised and totally ashamed if the rest of the Celtic fans stood by laughing. I added the poster should be ashamed at posting the video. Does that answer your scenario?

            Coming from the north of Ireland, do you think they only call Celtic fans fenians? Did the Belfast butchers request background reports for their victims? Are you saying if you could go back in time you’d accept the apartheid system you lived under to appease the fascists? Are you saying it’s OK to be antifa if you live in England or Wales but if you’re antifa in Scotland or Ireland then you’re just a bigoted Celtic / IRA supporter? I’d think there are a lot of people in this country with no interest in football (or the IRA) who like to see Sevco beat purely from an antifa viewpoint.

        2. Dee says:

          By the way Tom, Garvaghy Road hasn’t been an issue in 20 years.

          1. Tom Ultuous says:

            Yet I seem to remember when the DUP were interviewed after agreeing to back May they said “The future’s bright, the future’s orange” and “We’ll be marching down the Garvaghy road next year”. OK, it’s only a few clowns but they weren’t short of support when they campaigned for, cheated for and voted for Brexit. They’re of the same “funny guy” ilk that started the troubles by treating Catholics as second class citizens. As it stands they’ve made complete fools of themselves but don’t rule out Johnson making their dreams come true. When he runs out of smoke screens he might well invoke article 16 and hope an IRA mainland blitz will give him his “Falklands” moment.

          2. Dee says:

            If you would be happy to allow your child in amongst the Green Brigade sorts then there is no hope Scotland, another child indoctrinated in hate so where will it end? I’ve seen what this can do to a country if its not nipped in the bud, much less be encouraged. The Rainbow flag was nice yes, but 90% of their other displays have been Pseudo Irish Republican messages of division.

            Imagine this scenario. A young lad wearing a Rangers jersey walks past the Green Brigade on matchday. A young lad also walks past a Rangers Blue Order crowd wearing a Celtic jersey. Are you telling me that only one would be attacked? Are you forgetting under Deila at Hampden our supporters smashed a bottle over what was it a a 7 year old for being a Sevco fan? If you really can’t see the hatred emanating from both sides then I think you are very much part of the problem. Do I blame you? No, you’re a product of your upbringing. I was too when I thought I was freeing Ireland rioting with huns back in the day. I grew up. I thought about it and realised I was the problem as much as those throwing stones back at me.

            If half the Celtic support are Protestants, what do they mean then calling us fenians? You’ve proven my son in laws point, to them lot fenian is nothing to do with religion but the ideology that perpetrates IRA glorification. As much as wee lads in Easterhouse think the IRA were romantic warriors, they caused a lot of pain and destruction to a lot of people. Myself included, I lost my Dad to thugs for having the audacity to stand up for himself against bully boys.

          3. Dee says:

            That has nothing to do with this conversation, take it to slugger o’toole

          4. Tom Ultuous says:

            See my 3.32 post which is in the wrong place.

  4. Joe Tannock says:

    Colin, iespective of whether it’s racist, sectarian or whataboutery its abhorrent and you would have been better saying so rather than your gobbledygook contribution. Obfuscation methinks

    1. Colin Robinson says:

      But why do you find it ‘abhorrent’, Joe? Is it because you think it’s ‘racist’?

  5. Cathie Lloyd says:

    Thankyou Phil. These people need serious watching. I hope we start taking the threat of fascism seriously

  6. Tom Ultuous says:

    Sevco beating Celtic last Sunday might just turn out to be a great result. Their 3 point start has convinced them to go all in for the Champions league pot guaranteed for this season’s SPL winners. If they fail they’re in over their heads. No players have been sold. Many of these players are in the same position the disgruntled Celtic players were in last season. When things go wrong the boos will ring out and players will be scapegoated (particularly if black) and “The Billy Boys” will make a return.

    If that failure is as spectacular as Celtic’s 10IAR effort they’ll find their “£200 million pot of players” will be worth so little they might well end up back in administration. Hopefully this time the authorities will ensure that 100 million plus of assets aren’t sold off for a few million quid and those that attempt that same scam aren’t rewarded with tens of millions in compensation.

  7. Alan Webster says:

    maybe this time something will happen to end Scotland’s shame but with the upcoming orange walks coming up I’m not holding my breath. interesting certain tory politicians are very quiet on the subject

  8. Alasdair Macdonald says:

    “…too many still cling to the Sectarian/Old Firm paradigm.” This is an important point and one which needs to be called out. It comes out every time there is right wing violence in Glasgow, where the perpetrators clearly associate themselves with Rangers FC. The response of the media is immediately to include Irish republicans, Roman Catholics, supporters of Celtic FC and others in this as ‘they are both the same’. This then allows them to avoid examining the issues surrounding Rangers FC and those claiming to be supporters. So, proper journalistic investigation is avoided.

    When Mr Graeme Speirs, who identified himself as a supporter of Rangers FC, criticised Rangers FC, his contract with the Herald was terminated and when Angela Haggerty tweeted support for him as a fellow NUJ member, she was immediately sacked from the Sunday Herald, an allegedly separate title. The fact that Ms Haggerty had often written of her pride in her Irish and RC ancestry and her allegiance to Celtic FC, of course, ‘had nothing to do with it’ – pull the other one!!!! I suspect, too, that the hostility to her was also influenced by the fact that she is female and someone who is unafraid to express her opinions. She is left wing in her views and supports Scottish independence.

    Those who were involved in the various scenes involving celebrations by Rangers fans are predominantly male, misogynistic, right wing, racist, anti semitic (but support the Government of Israel!), royalist, xenophobic.

    1. Colin Robinson says:

      That’s a lot of name-calling, Alasdair.

      Isn’t the whole Rangers/Celtic thing, like contemporary Scottish politics generally, just an orgy of mutual name-calling?

      1. James Mills says:

        You have just proved Alasdair’s point about ”Old Firm” deflection !

        1. Colin Robinson says:

          So I have! One half of the ‘Old Firm’ is ‘male, misogynistic, right-wing, racist, anti-semitic (but support the Government of Israel!), royalist, xenophobic’ while the other half isn’t. What on earth was I thinking?!!

      2. Charger says:

        There are a couple of myths that need debunking here.

        1. One side is NOT as bad as the other. Can ANYONE point to ANY incident, ANYWHERE, at ANY TIME, where Celtic fans have displayed the type of behaviour now becoming common place in the centre of Glasgow?

        2. It is NOT small minority of Rangers fans who take part in the Ibrox hatefest on home match days. When the genocide choir are wading in “Fenian blood” and the cameras pan around the stadium, it would take a very sharp pair of eyes to spot ANYONE who isn’t singing.

        Another observation I’ve made over the course of my life, is that the vast majority of those who call themselves Protestant are actually atheist. Their definition of being Protestant is to not be Catholic. Oh aye, another thing. Most of those singing of Fenians DON’T actually know what a Fenian was.

  9. Dee says:

    Why does the Author feel the need to call a hugely diverse fan base, Klan and subcultures. This says a lot about why the Sun newspaper didn’t take him up on his book. This sort of language is abhorrent and says a lot about the man. I have grown up in a civil war based on such terms, whilst the author drank Irn Bru and ate battered Mars Bars we lived this ordeal so he has no right to add to it with such language. It’s hate speech.

    1. McArts Yard says:

      You’re a real know-it-all Dee. I can’t speak for anyone else but I’m sick of your condescending sh*te about growing up in Lenadoon. I also grew up in Lenadoon, am still here to this day. I am sorry that your Da was murdered by a bunch of scum bags over a fight in a pub. There are many similar stories and it sickens me. Many people had run-ins with local ‘chucks’ in bars which resulted in death, death threats, knee cappings and threats to throw people out of the country etc, all because these moronic bully boys were ‘connected’. That’s disgusting and disgraceful.
      However it does not define the wider struggle. It does not label Republicans as terrorists and it most certainly does not place us on a level par with racist, sectarian, homophobic and xenophobic loyalist choir boys that follow follow the tax dodging zombies in their tens of thousands.
      You know fine well about the requirement for armed resistance on these streets in those times. You are understandly bitter about ‘the Ra’ but it is seriously clouding your judgement of people that have a right to commemorate those that fought against and were victims of, the foreign occupation rammed down our throats here at home.
      About 90% of the GB’s banners & activist demonstrations are not about the IRA. They portray socialist ideals in relation to human, social & other rights based issues, internal issues at Celtic, support for homeless people, minorities & other victims of foreign invasion etc as well as highlighting the hypocritical two-tier system in Scottish/Irish society, government, Police and media in their perception and handling of Republicanism. You could make an argument that political & social issues have no place in the terraces of football stadiums but only when it is balanced i.e. no more poppy fests, no more troops in grounds, no royals or politicians presenting trophies and no more national anthems, flags or emblems…. whether they’re the good sort according to your beloved rag, The S*n newspaper.
      You may well have learned to bend the knee and tolerate the loyalist cancer on society since you left Lenadoon but the majority of people here have not and will not. Tiocfaidh ar la.

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