Wales and the Break Up of Britain

“Our future has to be ours to determine” argues Leanne Wood ahead of the major conference saluting Tom Nairn and assessing the British crisis.
Yes Cymru was born from the inspiration of the Scottish independence campaign. My first Yes Cymru rally was in September 2014. I’d just returned from a trip to Scotland. That country was fired-up and buzzing with expectation and optimism. Thousands were turning out for rallies, public meetings, and street events. The excitement and hope was palpable. Those of us from Wales who spent time in Scotland in 2014 wanted a bit of that confidence and hope for Wales.

Although the news of Scotland’s democratic renewal everywhere outside Scotland was limited, around five hundred people gathered outside the Senedd in Cardiff Bay to show our solidarity with our Scottish sister movement and to make the case for Wales to do the same. Those trips to Scotland in 2014 were life-changing. For the first time in my political life, a different future seemed possible. And people in Scotland wanted it. They were excited for it. So many people I had spoken to were determined that things couldn’t and shouldn’t go on in the old way. It was infectious.

Already by 2014, Britain was broken. The 2008 banking crash was followed by crippling welfare cuts otherwise known as ‘austerity’ – a term designed to make the UK government’s libertarianism sound like common sense. Far-right English nationalists (UKIP) had seats in the European Parliament and the London-based tabloids were taking regular potshots at the EU as an institution, as well as at the Scottish government (SNP-run) and the Welsh Assembly (Labour-run). These were the foundation years for the culture wars and the rise of Boris Johnson and Donald Trump.

Tom Nairn warned us in the late 1990s of a “hard-nosed and myopic” English climate of opinion – ‘Euro-scepticism.’ In After Britain, he wrote:

“If such a proto-nationalist mythology does indeed become the matrix for popular heartland resentment at decline and loss, and is further aggravated by failure or marginalisation, then, of course, serious problems could be posed.”

Many people in Scotland could see the risks from this and wanted to make the most of their chance to take a different path. Those risks are greater now almost a decade on.

Even though Scotland had been ahead of the game, it was only after the vote to leave the EU, the subsequent shenanigans over the Brexit deal, and then the election of the Johnson government in 2019, that opinion in relation to Welsh independence started to shift. The Euro-sceptic ex-tabloid journalist with a sketchy reputation was voted in as prime minister of Great Britain with a thumping majority. Within months, this character – previously seen by most political observers as a joke – suddenly found himself running a state that was far from ready for a global killer pandemic. It didn’t take long before the facade slipped.

It was at this point, during the early stages of Covid, that membership figures for Yes Cymru started to increase. The group says that in the first months of 2020, its membership doubled from 2,500 to 5,000. When the UK government refused to pay furlough to workers in Wales subject to the 17-day fire-break brought in by the Welsh government in October 2020, Yes Cymru reported that its membership numbers had risen by 3,000 in just three days. In March 2021, the group announced that it had reached 18,000 members. According to the University of Limerick, this made Yes Cymru Britain’s fastest growing political organisation in 2020.

Many expected the increase in support for Yes Cymru to translate into political backing for independence-supporting candidates in the 2021 Senedd election. Much was made of a 2020 poll that showed that 39 per cent of Labour supporters would vote for independence “if there was a referendum held tomorrow.” Did this mean that those Labour voters might switch their vote to Plaid Cymru? Apparently not. In fact, Plaid Cymru lost ground to Labour in that election.

Another assumption doing the rounds at the time was that, following the pandemic and the clear public anger at the way the Johnson government treated Wales, more people would develop an understanding about the devolved powers of the Welsh parliament. But this, too, was wrong. Minimal Welsh media coverage (most people consume London-based media and attempts to create Nation Cymru, a Welsh news service, ultimately failed) or coverage of the Senedd and repeated failures to adequately explain the boundaries of devolution by London-based media outlets, resulted in a third of Welsh people in 2015 believing that responsibility for running the health service lay with Westminster. These misconceptions have undermined Welsh democracy. People can only make good decisions if they are well informed.

Even today, myths persist. According to polling from earlier this year, still around a third of people believe that decisions made about the Welsh health service are made by the Westminster government. A quarter of people in Wales believe that policing is devolved, yet responsibility for the whole criminal justice system is retained by Westminster. The Senedd must be the only law making parliament in the world that doesn’t have control over the legal powers to enforce the laws it makes. Wales has no banking system of its own. Nairn told us more than twenty years ago that Wales had some nation-building to do. He was right.

Another major barrier to Welsh independence is the economy. Wales is heavily reliant on the UK benefits system. While the Scottish economy has been growing in recent years, the Welsh economy has seen negative economic growth (not that GDP growth is a good measure of wellbeing). Without control over key economic levers, Welsh governments of whatever persuasion are powerless to tackle the structural economic problems that lead to perpetual Welsh poverty and our reliance on a diminishing welfare state.

The good news is that more and more people in Wales are recognising that, without the ability to make decisions about their future, these deep and serious problems will not and cannot be solved. Polls tell us that around a third of people in Wales say they support independence. This translates to majority support among young people when ‘don’t knows’ are removed. According to Yes Cymru, some polling data suggests a further one in four people would support independence if Scotland becomes independent.

The pro-independence rallies organised by ‘All Under One Banner’ these days attract thousands instead of the few hundred of us gathered outside the Senedd during those heady days in the run up to the Scottish referendum. The Commission on the Future of Wales is seriously considering independence as one of a number of viable options for Wales’ future – after concluding the status quo is not an option. Its report is due out in the new year and will hopefully further inform the debate and provide a boost for further discussion and plans for action from our independence movement.

Tom Nairn demonstrated back in 1977 that Britain was breaking. There is little hope that a change of government in Westminster will provide the radical shift in our politics that so many of us desperately want to see. Many of us have concluded that Westminster can’t be fixed. The question for us in Wales is this: what do we want to create instead? Our future has to be ours to determine. We are fortunate to have like-minded friends in other countries we can work with to pursue alternative opportunities. I very much hope that we grasp them.

Leanne Wood is a campaigner for Welsh independence and former leader of Plaid Cymru. At the Break-up of Britain conference on 18 November, she will appear as part of a panel on Britain’s democratic crisis. Tickets for the conference can be purchased here: Donations, to help cover conference costs, are welcome. 

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  1. Welsh_Siôn says:

    I have a lot of time for Leanne and this is a good article, but I think she’s mistaken in this respect:

    ” … attempts to create Nation Cymru, a Welsh news service, ultimately failed.”

    What of this?

    1. Drew Anderson says:

      Thanks to you and your frequent links, posted on Wee Ginger Dug, I’ve been aware of that site for quite a few years now Siôn.

      I’ve checked in several times a week, even posted a few comments now and again. I’ve never seen a hint that it was in trouble, never mind failing.

      1. Welsh_Siôn says:

        Thank you, Drew. Are you a good ‘Doctor’ on NC?

  2. SteveH says:

    Early on the article refers to “Far-right English nationalists (UKIP)”. Its an obligatory use of a derogatory label to demonize a group in order to dismiss out of hand their views; and of course being English identifies them as the source of all your problems.

    OK playing by those labelling rules lets refer to the SNP and Plaid Cymru as far-left Nationalists. The only difference being you want to give away your new found independence to the power of the unelected body of the EU commission.

    Of course, you also need to know that it was losing the powerhouse of England that upset the EU. This makes the United States of Europe a less attractive entity.

    Also, lets look at the reality of the process if (re)joining the EU as two little countries, although, Its not a given it would happen even with giving in on all points in the negotiations.

    What do newly a independent Scotland and Wales have to offer the EU? Like most of the new joiners they would be largely recipient nations rather than donor countries. Do the recession hit Germany or other donor countries want more mouths to feed?

    Then, by joining the EU you lose even more control over Scottish and Welsh lives then you did as being part of Britain.

    The problem with Britain as with the rest of Western countries has been the explosion of the self-serving graduate elites at the top of every institution and government.

    Scottish and Welsh working classes have more in common with English working classes then they do with their own graduate elites.

    Even most of the top (hated) English Tories (with a few exceptions) have more in common with the elites of Scotland snd Wales then they do with their own working classes.

    Its time we simply concentrated on creating the opportunities for all our young people then promoting the narrow self-destructive narrative that currently dominates.

    We should be creating opportunities for all the young to have confidence in a future where their energy and efforts to afford somewhere nice to live and have a family they can support and keep safe. To give the young pride in who they are, their heritage, their history and their culture, not lumber them with the supposed crimes and baggage of their forebears. Help them look forward to a bright future with a strong sense of who they are.

    Today’s graduate elite sneer at our shared national identity, intent on celebrating those of the newest incomers over our own. It a total con.

    Your obsession with divorcing England blinds you to the fact that you would be marrying an even bigger entity that will take even less notice of you.

    Its not independence and extreme political correctness that will help ALL our youngsters, its to fight to make democracy work across all of Britain.

    To give the young people an affordable self-reliance based future, not one dominated by dependence on a benefits culture or distracted by a critical theory based social justice obsessed discourse where its more important to have compelled speech over gender pronouns then it is to have true freedom to think and speak for themselves without fear.

    Listen to those who have lived under socialist totalitarian regimes, and see the direction of travel you are really on.

    Be careful what you wish for.

    1. “Even most of the top (hated) English Tories (with a few exceptions) have more in common with the elites of Scotland snd Wales then they do with their own working classes.”

      This is 100% true! : )

      I am however struggling with the logic that deciding to run your own affairs and create a functioning contemporary democracy would mean we would “live under socialist totalitarian regimes” … I mean, come on man, get a grip

      1. John says:

        I completely disagree – this is not true!
        The top of the Tory Party went to Eton and other type public schools which shows their indulged background is very different from the politicians who are in power in Scotland and Wales.
        The rest of Steve H post is the usual tirade of half baked prejudices with a dose of hatred against graduates thrown in. He hates graduates because they do not think in his UK, Monarchy 19th century loving, EU, immigrant, independence hating manner. Then because they they don’t agree with him he accuses them of being intolerant and indulging not questioning things. Many Conservative politicians are anti- graduates because graduates don’t by and large vote UKIP or Tory. Well guess what that is because they have been educated to see beyond the nonsense and lies printed in majority of newspapers (comics) that make a joke of UK.
        He tries to hide his array of prejudices behind a supposed class warrior attitude. This is just bullshit as all the reactionary causes he promotes would do virtually nothing for the very people he purports to care for
        I personally have read his posts and see his vitriol for what it is and it adds nothing to benefit anyone in this country.
        No doubt he will now reply with the usual claim that I am some sort of neo -Marxist or some other alt-right label applied to anyone who disagrees with their personal philosophy based upon hatred of anyone who may differ from their rigid beliefs.
        If he is given space to air his views I am free to try and show how shallow and nasty they are and the reason I not only utterly reject his views but have nothing but contempt for them.

        1. John says:

          One the issues that has come out of covid enquiry this week has been the issue of government ignoring minorities and impact on state school pupils. It was acknowledged that this was because the people making decisions in government at Westminster were mainly all products of privileged backgrounds who had not only attended private schools but who had little contact with or experience of public schools, services or any aspect of life outside their privileged background.
          While you are free to argue about competence of those in Welsh and Scottish governments the government’s of both are made up of far less people who come from a privileged background.
          To highlight my point just compare the social backgrounds of the 3 leaders during covid – Johnson, Sturgeon and Drakeford.

    2. Drew Anderson says:

      “…Then, by joining the EU you lose even more control over Scottish and Welsh lives then you did as being part of Britain…”

      How so?

      Only sovereign nations can join the EU; it doesn’t veto internal policy, as the Westminster regime are more than willing to do. The EU is still primarily about trade, any “control” surrendered is usually over trading standards; much of which have to be adhered to, even for non-members, if you wish to trade with the bloc.

      I can’t speak for Wales, but do you think that with 60% of the UK’s territorial waters, Scotland has nothing to offer the EU? Many EU citizens are keener on fish and other seafood, than your average Brit.

      You haven’t given any mention of EFTA. EFTA membership is relatively easily achievable, gives access to the Single Market and allows for, unlike the EU, bipartite agreements; which would avoid, many of, the issues that would come with an EU border with England.

      1. Satan says:

        The EU doesn’t need to veto member’s internal policies when so much of member’s laws are made by the EU civil service in Brussels and Strasburg. Mind you, the ECB seems to be allowed to pretty much run governments, like in Greece, with the weight of the EU supporting them.

        1. John says:

          Satan – please note that to vote on the deal for UK to leave EU each member’s government of European Union got a vote as equal partners.
          Just compare that with how 2 of 4 g members of UK voted to stay in EU but we’re not only ignored in leaving but then ignored the governments of these 1 of these countries (Scotland) when negotiating a deal. How they ignored and failed the other country (NI) despite repeated warnings is too big a subject for this discussion but undermines the shocking lack of democracy within UK.
          To quote the old parable when discussing the lack of EU democracy from a UK perspective it is like point to the more in EU eye whilst ignoring the plank in the UK’s eye.
          Not sure if a religious parable will resonate with someone who for reasons beyond me uses Satan as his name?

        2. Drew Anderson says:

          Got any specific examples, outwith trade related issues, where “the EU” have shot down domestic decisions.

          Anything that compares with striking down GRR or recycling (done after the fact, when objections to either could’ve been raised earlier). Be specific, none of the sweeping stuff that you posted earlier.

    3. Bill says:

      ‘Scottish and Welsh working classes have more in common with English working classes’ – like the ‘red’ seats that voted Tory at the last election?
      Like those that voted for Brexit? I think not. The Scottish working class has returned the SNP to power and rejected the Tories and Labour. The Welsh working class has returned Labour to the Senned. Look at the facts. Also look at how well other smaller countries have done in the EU – Lithuania, Estonia Denmark etc.


    4. Tom Ultuous says:

      We’d be leaving a dictatorship to join a trading club. The EU would not have the “control” to steal our oil or sell off our nationalised industries like the Westminster dictators did. Westminster will do the same with our wind / wave renewable energy potential if we don’t gain independence. It might be a tremendous result for you right-wing UKippers that the amount of water allowed in sausages is decided by, and only by, an Englishman but, quite frankly, we don’t give a shit. Maybe you could be the first ever Leaver to tell me 3 EU laws you disagreed with pre-Brexit. In all the forums I’ve posted that query on over the years I’ve never had a reply. One guy did attempt it but was effectively claiming that pre-Brexit he couldn’t sleep for worrying about the 5% tampon tax (pretty irrelevant In Scotland where period products are free).

      1. Satan says:

        Both the common agriculture policy and the common fisheries policy are deeply flawed. That means the more than half the EU’s budget is spent on something that is deeply flawed. Since the last budget, EU largesse comes with a requirement for members to uphold the ‘rule of law’ (as defined by someone or other in the EU). In their favour, it’s nice not to have border customs posts (although that does facilitate Swedish police stations getting attacked by people with assault rifles and grenades from Serbia, and illegal migrants).

        The ECB did pretty much run Greece, with the weight of the EU behind them.

        1. Tom Ultuous says:

          Is that meant to be 3 EU laws you disagreed with pre-Brexit?

    5. SleepingDog says:

      @SteveH, when you wrote:
      “To give the young pride in who they are, their heritage, their history and their culture, not lumber them with the supposed crimes and baggage of their forebears.”
      you seem oblivious to this being a signature of totalitarian regimes who demand that its populace all worship the benevolent state.

      Obviously this appeals to the criminal and morally weak elements in society who either cannot handle the truth or prefer it hidden, even if that makes fair dealing impossible with other nations and peoples who have their own and global histories which conflict with your national mythologies. And if they point out our past wrongs they must be inventing grudges and therefore envious our or enemies to be fought? That leads to perpetual war, beloved by you fascists (as an ideal, until you get your arses kicked).

      You may prefer the mental slavery of a subject, but I guess more people are coming around to accepting the responsibilities and duties of citizenship, and the British monarchy is being increasingly rejected round the globe. I’ve watched a couple of Al Murray’s Why Does Everyone Hate the British Empire episodes (Sky History) and it seems to have improved since the WDEHtEnglish series, pitched at general audiences.

      Comments about ‘extreme political correctness’ are typically railings about aspects of politeness that the railler disagrees with. Politeness is simply a way of getting on together in society, not a thought policing. When however rational, scientific, evidenced and planetary-realistic expressions are being suppressed, as you want to suppress knowledge of the British Empire’s actual crimes, then that form of extremism should be resisted. Even if your precious feelings might be hurt.

    6. Wul says:

      FFS Man! What is your problem with “Graduates” ?
      My brother has just has his life saved by a “graduate”. A “graduate” designed the bridge that I cross every day to get to work. A “graduate” delivered my second child. A “graduate” installed a pacemaker in my Dad’s chest that allowed him to live long enough to hold his grandchildren.

      You talk a load of pish Steve.

      1. Niemand says:

        Yes he has a real blind spot on that which undermines the rest (and some of that could be pertinent). It assumes all graduates are the same and have all been inculcated into some kind of radical Marxist leftism. I work in a university and have done for 20 years and know this to be simply untrue and it is really lazy and frankly stupid to keep trotting out this line.

        There is also a major difference between broadly progressive left of centre politics and the radical left and also, in my book the more excessive ‘woke’ left who can irritate me as much as SteveH. This stuff is not all the same and it serves no-one’s argument to say it is. But yes, you can apply the same thing to the right of centre.

        1. SleepingDog says:

          @Niemand, clearly there are people who abuse the language and form of ‘woke’ to create self-pleasing fantasies just as the likes of SteveH longs for a comfort-blanket national mythology and heroic role against largely-imaginary enemies. That is foke (fake woke) and its kindred (which I refer to as Smoke, Boke and Choke). Being woke is essential to escape the Cave of Shadows, and a step towards rescuing others from delusions.

          1. Niemand says:

            Which is why I put the word in inverted commas. Regardless of what you call it, the problem exists. If being ‘awake’ to something you think important, then means you try and put others to sleep for not being awake to it in the way you think they should be, then you have a major problem.

          2. SleepingDog says:

            @Niemand, I agree there is a problem, and it is an ancient one: sophistry mimicking philosophy for its own ends (while noting that even ancient and modern academic philosophers have sometimes been guilty of such sophistry too). I don’t think the problem is insurmountable, since the general quality of sophistry has apparently not improved over the centuries. If you know the patterns, the fallacies and tactics are usually easy to spot.

            Partly what I meant is that objectivity can sometimes bring pain as well as enlightenment. I have seen several people struggle with finding out that their parentage derives both from enslaved people and enslavers, for example. Almost certainly involving some form of rape. But in no case I saw did they run away from these painful discoveries. In the larger picture, we see the foolishness of ancestor worship and the folly of extrinsic identitarianism, whether by comfort-blanket-nationalists or gender-identity-thieves.

            I’m not sure if what you mean by ‘put to sleep’, which sounds rather sinister, but certainly the trend to silence science-based or philosophically-held or evidence-derived-historical or core-biological-ethical opinions must be resisted.

          3. Niemand says:

            Yes, agreed. By put to sleep, yes, I mean silenced by various processes of ostracisation, character assassination and the threat of, if not actual, violence.

    7. Alec Lomax says:

      Comedy gold.

    8. Roger Harris says:

      We are careful for what we wish for. That’s Independence.

    9. Dafydd B says:

      Steve H

      If there is a Welsh obsession with divorcing England, it is far outplayed by your obsession that it shouldn’t happen.
      “i thought we were all the same” is a very common expression of it.

  3. Satan says:

    The Welsh voted to leave the EU. I think the percentages were the same as the UK as a whole.

    1. Adrian Roper says:

      The Welsh Brexit vote was massively skewed by the number of English or English speaking immigrants who voted to leave. Over 25% of the Welsh population are immigrants (including me, as it happens: just so you know I’m not being racist) and an even larger percentage are the children of immigrants. Welsh speaking Wales voted Remain.
      As an honourable sort of immigrant, I tend to take the Welsh point of view on these matters. Independence in Europe with a seat at the UN. Roll on the Rejoin referendum.
      And let’s have a massive swing that way in England too.
      In love and hope…

      1. John says:

        Adrian – I was also working and living in Wales during 2016. I too not only voted against Brexit but completely rejected the AngloBritish exceptionalist philosophy it was based on. I also respect the Welsh and their language though I could only speak a few words.
        The fact is that the electorate of Wales did vote for Brexit. I am afraid that I completely reject the ‘native Welsh’ voted against Brexit line as much as I reject ‘the native Scot’s’ voted for independence line. This is a nativist type of nationalism that I and many others that oppose Brexit and support independence reject utterly and actually is more in line with exceptionalist AngloBritish Brexit philosophy.
        To quote Bob Hawke on citizenship- a citizen is someone who lives in a country, obeys the laws of the country and pays their taxes in the country (taxes part would probably exclude half of Westminster government!) Everything else is just pointless bullshit.
        All voters in Wales & Scotland, regardless of background, are equally worthy members of electorate of either country whether we agree with their views or not.
        If we cannot persuade the electorate regardless of background of our point of view we do not deserve to win the argument on Brexit, independence etc.

      2. Niemand says:

        How do you know this? It simply suits your purposes to say it was the English that done it. Come up with the real evidence for such an assertion.

          1. Niemand says:

            Are you serious? That isn’t proof at all.

            It is a really dangerous road to go down to start looking at groups of people and demonise them, but then in some nationalist circles it is standard practice. Normally it is called bigotry.

          2. Adrian Roper says:

            Hi Niemand
            I hadn’t demonised anyone. I simply pointed out that the Brexit vote in Wales showed significant differences between those with a cultural identity oriented towards Welsh identity (because they speak Welsh or live in a Welsh speaking community) and those oriented towards English identity (such as recent or longer term immigrants). I think the link I sent you was adequate evidence for the purpose of my case, especially given that it was not from a Welsh nationalist source: The Times…
            Can I suggest you calm down?
            Just because I’m a Welsh nationalist doesn’t mean I’m a bigot.
            Anti nationalists can be bigots too.
            We’re a rum bunch, us humans, but it’s best to be positive.

            In hope and love – to you and the SNP

          3. Niemand says:

            Are you suggesting that those Welsh people who don’t speak Welsh or live in a Welsh-speaking community (i.e. still the majority) do not have a Welsh identity and are automatically more interested in an English one? I suspect many of those people would be pretty angry about that suggestion.

            And when it comes to Brexit voting and Welsh speaking, the correlation is not by any means exact and given how close the vote was you have not at all proven that it was English votes that swung it. What you are now suggesting instead is that it was non-Welsh speakers that did it though again not proven at all:

            Map of Welsh speakers:


            Did more Welsh speakers vote remain than not? Yes that seems clear but that is all you can say for sure.

          4. Adrian Roper says:

            Hi Niemand, you seem far more concerned about Englishness than I am. And I sense your anger but have no idea of the cause.
            Best wishes, Adrian

          5. Niemand says:

            You can only deflect and personalise exchanges so much before it looks like you are avoiding the issue you yourself raised then ran away from. What you write has consequences.

            Or maybe the implications of what you are saying are only now becoming apparent?

          6. Adrian Roper says:

            Hi Niemand,
            Here’s some more evidence of my opening point:
            Why Welsh speakers tended to vote Remain is not deeply researched but it is likely to relate to the long standing Plaid Cymru policy of Welsh independence in Europe, a view widely known in Welsh speaking areas which have strongly supported Plaid Cymru for many years.

            Peace and love

    2. Drew Anderson says:

      There’s a clear difference between “the Welsh” and “the electorate of Wales”. Wales has more English born voters than Scotland, in Wales’ case a lot of retirees; precisely the demographic that voted most heavily for Brexit, probably enough of them to swing a tight vote.

      1. John says:

        If your definition of being ‘Welsh’ is being born in Wales you need to include all ‘Welsh’ people in UK who voted in Brexit to say that ‘Welsh’ people voted against Brexit.
        What is being claimed is that ‘Welsh’ people who voted in Wales were against Brexit. This is rather meaningless and looks like a bit of an excuse for the electorate of Wales voting for Brexit and is a form of nativist nationalism.
        This is entirely different from the clear position in Scotland & NI where the electorate clearly voted against Brexit.
        I lived in Wales in 2014 and having been born in Scotland consider myself Scottish. I was in full agreement with the definition of electorate for 2014 referendum where it was people resident in Scotland who got to vote only. This clearly showed that the referendum was about those who would be directly affected by vote and was a clear rejection of nativism.

      2. Niemand says:

        What’s the real evidence for how different groups voted? You haven’t got any.

  4. Satan says:

    Perhaps Mr Nairn would have been more prescient to write a book about the breakup of the EU.

    1. John says:

      The EU has not broken up but enlarged since Mr Nairn wrote his book.
      Yes the UK has left, for reasons most of us in Scotland still cannot fathom, but Mr Nairn predicted the euro sceptic forces, primarily amongst electorate in England, that brought about this outcome.
      Brexit, the outcome, how it was achieved and the ongoing implications is a significant factor in my (& many others) support for Scottish independence. This, I would suggest, is especially prevalent in younger people who were brought up with the EU and Holyrood and without the postwar influence the makes older people more pro-union.
      In short, even if Brexit has occurred before independence, the strain of AngloBritish exceptionalism that underpinned UKIP and many that supported Brexit is rejected by majority of electorate in Scotland and will be a major factor in Scotland becoming independent- if it it chooses to do so.

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